Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/United States Academic Decathlon National Championships

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by User:Matthewedwards 20:13, 1 November 2008 [1].

United States Academic Decathlon National Championships[edit]

I've recently moved this list to its own article. Previously, it had been embedded in the USAD article. I think it meets all of the criteria. It definitely is comprehensive. I will leave it up to you to decide whether it passes the other criteria. - Yohhans talk 16:23, 8 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Restart", nothing negative, but not enough to reach consensus
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Comments

  • Current ref 5 is lacking a publisher
Otherwise sources look good, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 14:32, 9 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I've fixed that. I accidentally capitalized the "work" field in the {{cite news}} template, so it didn't work. Silly me. - Yohhans talk 14:53, 9 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Don't you hate those types of errors! Ealdgyth - Talk 15:00, 9 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I do, but it's nice when it's the only error that exists! :) - Yohhans talk 15:04, 9 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Not much to say. The prose is pretty good. Gary King (talk) 21:10, 9 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Nice to know there's not much wrong with it! Hopefully others feel the same. I'd be happy to address any concerns that arise though. - Yohhans talk 22:22, 9 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Minor comment: What Honors, Scholastic and Varsity are not ever really explained, but the article does take some time to go into the different scoring awards for each of them. It might be worth adding a sentence about them equaling A Team, B Team, and C Team. Other than that, it looks good :) NuclearWarfare contact meMy work 19:02, 18 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 02:30, 27 October 2008 (UTC) [reply]
Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)

Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)

  • "Established in 1981, the United States Academic Decathlon (USAD) National Championship has the winning school from each competing state pitted against each other for an overall title." The winning school of what? The first paragraph needs more context. Explain what the Decathlon is before explaining how the medal system works.
    • I've added an introductory paragraph explaining what the academic decathlon is. Hopefully this clears up yours and NuclearWarfare's concerns on this matter. - Yohhans talk 18:57, 22 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • I still don't understand what the "winning schools" won. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:40, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • I was trying to convey the fact that the state champions compete at nationals. How about changing it to, "has the state winners pitted against each other for an overall title."? Does that make it clearer? - Yohhans talk 16:27, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
          • But what competition? Unless it uses the same name. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:54, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
            • Do you mean changing it to, "has the state Academic Decathlon winners pitted against each other for an overall title."? Because that seems redundant to me. - Yohhans talk 01:04, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
              • I just want to know the name of the competition that the winning school from each state wins before the Nationals. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:07, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
                • It's just the USAD state championship. There are three rounds of competition in USAD: local/county, state and national. It's all the same competition and the same format, just at different levels. To get to state, you must pass local/county and to get to nationals you must win state. It's probably because I am way too close to the competition and know too much about it, but I'm failing to see where there's confusion regarding this statement. - Yohhans talk 01:52, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
                  • I don't think you need to add more information, I think the sentence needs to be recasted. The lead sentence needs to be an accessible, direct definition of the topic. Something like this: "the United States Academic Decathlon which is the premier scholastic competition for students in America from both public and private high schools. " [2] Dabomb87 (talk) 02:41, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
                    • Ok, I finally get what you're saying. I've changed it to, "The United States Academic Decathlon (USAD) is one of the premier academic competitions for high school students in the United States. The National Championship, first held in 1982, pits state winners against each other for a national title." What do you think? - Yohhans talk 23:36, 25 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • (outdent) Good, except what makes the Decathlon a "premier" competition? Dabomb87 (talk) 22:33, 26 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • That's just generally what all the descriptions of Academic Decathlon say. It's easy enough to remove that though. I understand that it sounds a bit POVish. - Yohhans talk 02:12, 27 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Per WP:COLORS, use a symbol such as an asterisk or pound sign along with the colors for accessibility.
  • "However, Dr. Peterson's vision was bigger than just a national event." "bigger"-->more.
    • Actually, "more" would be incorrect. For example, changing the sentence, "A basketball is bigger than a baseball." to "A basketball is more than a baseball." makes the sentence ambiguous and lose its original meaning. - Yohhans talk 18:57, 22 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "This goal was realized at the 1984 Nationals which drew teams from 32 states and four countries"—Comma after Nationals. Per MOSNUM, comparative quantities need to either be both written out "thirty-two states and four countries" or both written in digits "32 states and 4 countries". Wouldn't it be five countries?
    • Fixed the comma. Also, good catch on the MOSNUM issue. I hadn't seen that one before. I changed the sentence to, "This goal was realized at the 1984 Nationals, which drew teams from thirty-two states and four foreign countries: Canada, Mexico, New Zealand and South Korea." - Yohhans talk 18:57, 22 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Clarify that the states are from the United States. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:40, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • Is that really necessary when I've already said "foreign countries". Also, add in the fact that this is the United States Academic Decathlon, surely people will not think these are Mexican, or <insert other country> states? - Yohhans talk 16:27, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The inclusion of foreign countries has not been a regular occurrence however." Do foreign countries have to be invited to participate or do they decide for themselves whether they want to compete?
    • I reworded things here to, "However, the inclusion of foreign countries has not been a regular occurrence. Schools outside the United States are recruited by USAD to compete;[1] the next occurrence of an international presence was at the 1989 Nationals, when teams from Northern Ireland and Rio de Janeiro competed.[2]" Is that clearer? I think it's worded better and flows a bit more smoothly. - Yohhans talk 18:57, 22 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Unfortunately, the sentence now contains two different ideas. I have two suggestions: However, although schools outside the United States are recruited by the USAD to compete, foreign countries have not participated regularly. After the 1984 Nationals, the next occurrence of an international presence was at the 1989 Nationals, when teams from Northern Ireland and Rio de Janeiro competed. or
      • However, the international competion in the 1984 Nationals was an unusually large compared to the other Championships; since then, international competition has been minimal despite USAD recruitment. After the 1984 Nationals, the next occurrence of an international presence was at the 1989 Nationals, when teams from Northern Ireland and Rio de Janeiro competed. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:40, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • I think the first is a better representation of what happened. Both are great suggestions though. Thanks for the rewording! This part of the article was giving me some trouble. - Yohhans talk 16:27, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The next occurrence of international participation was at the 1989 national competition when teams from Northern Ireland and Rio de Janeiro competed." Comma after competition.
  • "Since then, a school from British Columbia, Canada is the only foreign competitor to have made a grab for the national title, having unsuccessfully done so in 2004." "made a grab"-->compete.
    • Changed to, "... foreign competitor to have competed for the national title, ..." - Yohhans talk 18:57, 22 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "These two separate contests"
  • In sortable tables, all items need to be linked. Dabomb87 (talk) 12:45, 20 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Good catch. I had forgotten about that. Fixed. - Yohhans talk 18:57, 22 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Established in 1981, the United States Academic Decathlon (USAD) National Championship has the winning school from each competing state pitted against each other for an overall title." Is there a different type of title besides "overall"? Even so, wouldn't it make more sense as "national title"?
    • That is a better wording for it; I'll use that instead. The entire sentence (with previously mentioned changes) now reads, "Established in 1981, the United States Academic Decathlon (USAD) National Championship has the state winners pitted against each other for a national title." - Yohhans talk 16:27, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The Academic Decathlon consists 10 events"—Missing a word.
  • "Super Quiz takes the place of Science or Social Science each year" You might mention that this happens alternately (I assume).
    • Good point; changed to, "Super Quiz alternates between Science and Social Science each year".
  • "The Academic Decathlon is unique" Unique as compared to what? Dabomb87 (talk) 00:40, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Well, I suppose I could cite all the other academic competitions where the other competitors are largely 4.0 students, but that would just create extra length and fluff. Instead, I've just removed the phrase entirely. It now reads, "The Academic Decathlon requires participation from students of all levels of academic ability." - Yohhans talk 16:27, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I'll leave this up to debate, but I feel that the introductory section is too long in relation to the rest of the article. Does anyone else agree that the article might be better if either the format or history of the national championships had its own section in the article? -- CB (ö) 20:52, 22 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I wondered about this myself actually. The only thing I can think of to do is maybe remove the second paragraph. The first is necessary to provide context, and third lays out the history of the competition a little. However, I suppose another possibility is to axe the inclusion of information about foreign competitors. This would cut down on length quite a bit. Also, the fourth paragraph is necessary to explain the virtual competitions. Suggestions on what route to take would be fantastic. :) - Yohhans talk 16:40, 23 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

  • Lists should be presented in chronological order, per WP:LISTS#Organization and WP:SAL#Chronological ordering
    • Ah, I did not realize that. I have reordered them so that by default, the most recent winner goes last. - Yohhans talk 04:15, 29 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • The 2009 and 2010 events haven't occurred and should be removed
  • I agree that the Lede is a little too long. Perhaps move the final paragraph to the Virtual section to serve as an intro to those tables?
    • That is how I originally had it, but looking at other featured lists, many of them did not have prose beyond the lead. I just assumed that this how lists ought to be structured, so I moved the small school description to the lead before I submitted it to FLC. It's now back to how I had it originally. - Yohhans talk 04:15, 29 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Clarify in the table header that "Winner" is "Winning high school". I thought JJ Pearce, WH Taft, J Frank Dobbie and James E. Taylor were winning students or something
  • Consider moving the references out of the year column into the notes column
    • I added a reference column for this. I did not do this in the first place since I think it just makes the table feel more cluttered, but I guess that's just my preference. - Yohhans talk 04:15, 29 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Could you link the locations?
    • Sure thing. All have been linked. - Yohhans talk 04:15, 29 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Please use a less bright green. See WP:COLOUR for standard WP used colours.
    • Awww, but the that one is so bright and cheerful! ;) I changed it to this instead:    - Yohhans talk 04:15, 29 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nice otherwise. Matthewedwards 22:50, 28 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
  1. ^ "United States Academic Decathlon : International Academic Decathlon". United States Academic Decathlon. Retrieved 2008-10-22.
  2. ^ Foster, Catherine (1989-04-26). "Decathlon for Mental Gymnasts". Christian Science Monitor. p. 13 (Ideas).
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