Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Steven Curtis Chapman discography/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Giants2008 via FACBot (talk) 21:02:33 29 September 2019 (UTC) [1].

Steven Curtis Chapman discography[edit]

Steven Curtis Chapman discography (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Toa Nidhiki05 01:38, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

My previous nomination here, Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of National Football League rushing champions/archive2, is at three supports with all comments resolved, so I figured I'd nominate another list. This is the discography of Steven Curtis Chapman, one of the best-selling contemporary Christian music artists and the single most awarded figure in industry history. This list categorizes his major studio efforts and certifications along with chart positions for his studio albums as well as compilation albums, holiday albums, other albums (EPs and side projects), and video albums. It also includes a list of his singles and charting songs going back to 1987. Both of these sections are large, but I think they are summarized adequately in the lede, which notes his first albums, his major successes in the 90s, and his recent albums in the 2000s and 2010s, as well as brief mentions of his singles. Toa Nidhiki05 01:38, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments
  • I have only had time to look at the lead so far, where I have noticed the following:
    • No need to repeat his entire name at the start of para 3
    • "Chapman’s next two albums, Declaration (2001) and All About Love (2003), become" => became
    • "peaking at Nos. 14 and 12" - no need for a capital N
    • Same in the next sentence
  • I hope to get to look at the tables later today..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 12:21, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • Corrected all of these now. Thanks in advance for taking a look! Toa Nidhiki05 12:40, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • The only thing I could spot on the tables is that I strongly suspect that "Speechles" is spelt incorrectly...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 19:59, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Ojorojo

  • The prose would benefit from some fine tuning. "Chapman" begins 7 out of 10 sentences, and some are quite long. Also, the uses of "would" and "became" don't really add much, when "Chapman released" and "Real Life was his first" are more direct.
  • The "Certifications" and "Albums" columns in the tables sometimes appear much wider than the "Titles" columns (the 2001–present singles titles are squeezed into a very narrow column). This gives an unbalanced look and draws attention away from the titles in the first row. Also, more consistency in column sizes from table to table is easier to follow (there's quite a jump from the first single table to the second).

Obviously, these are personal preferences, but something you may consider. Otherwise, good job. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:07, 29 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Good catches. Did not notice the "singles" table does not have any length requirements - I've added them so they are consistent now (with the exception of the 2001-present table, as it has a certifications row). I've also removed several Chapmans from the lede and a few uses of the unnecessary phrasing. Toa Nidhiki05 20:52, 29 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • OK. In looking over the citations, I noticed many of the "Album details" entries use AllMusic reviews or the RIAA awards list. AllMusic is only considered a reliable source for its reviews. It's not clear where its sidebar info (dates, genres, etc.) comes from and is frequently incorrect. RIAA only shows the labels and album or single; the certification dates are not applicable. Amazon.com "should be avoided" (WP:NOTRSMUSIC). Release announcements, "breakout" entries, etc., in Billboard, genre magazines, or Chapman's own press releases are better sources.
    I’ll see what I can find but there is some contradictory advice at wp:NOTRSMUSIC (which advises against Amazon but does advise using Allmusic for internet-area releases). The RIAA sources actually do show release dates, though - if you click “more details”, it expands out to include the dates of certification but more importantly it does show the actual release date. I have access to Newspapers.com so I’ll see if I can find dates there. Would Chapman's website be a reliable source for this? He appears to have all the release dates listed. Toa Nidhiki05 15:48, 30 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Occasionally, my computer won't show certain info, which is the case with the RIAA "More Details". If RIAA shows the release date, that's good enough. I think the first AllMusic sentence in NOTRSMUSIC is outdated (and out-of-place) and is contradicted by the following paragraph. Until this can be corrected, it is best to avoid the AllMusic sidebar info, especially when other sources are available. The Chapman website info should be OK for dates for the albums that RIAA doesn't have (I wonder how the three compare?). —Ojorojo (talk) 17:43, 30 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I've removed all of the Allmusic release dates and corrected the dates as well; there are still two albums cited to Amazon, but I could not find any other non-retailer sources that gave exact release dates. Regardless, both are out of print so I do not think the conflict of interest in selling still exists, and the dates line up well with other retailers as far as I could tell. Chapman's website does have a page that lists his long-form videos, but only the year of release. Toa Nidhiki05 02:15, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
In looking for better sources for videos, I noticed some more.[2][3][4] Are these just earlier editions of the three you've listed? —Ojorojo (talk) 16:36, 2 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
From the ones you listed:
  1. The Videos is already listed.
  2. I actually own the Live DVD so I know it exists, but it did’t chart and I couldn’t find much if any coverage on it.
  3. The Christmas Is All In The Heart VHS is, AFAIK, just a VHS music video released for promotional use, maybe in video stores.
  4. The Great Adventure VHS was bundled with some versions of The Great Adventure CD. Maybe a pre-order bonus?
  5. The Live Adventure was released as both a VHS and CD release, but since it charted on CD I included it in live albums while noting it was also released on VHS.
  6. Christmas Child was a made-for-TV movie he was in as an actor, so it’s not a video album.
  7. CCM United was a large compilation project with a ton of different artists, so not a Steven Curtis Chapman exclusive project.
  8. Front Row is an ancient VHS (1990, maybe)? It didn’t chart, and it didn’t receive much (if any) coverage.
Toa Nidhiki05 18:19, 2 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • The singles and charting songs show the references for peak positions, which may be sufficient for years. But if there is a general source for years, this could be added at the top of the "Year" columns (missing for "Other charting songs"). —Ojorojo (talk) 15:05, 30 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Fixed the lack of year in “other charting songs”. There is not a general source for years, the year column comes from the earliest date the song charted. Toa Nidhiki05 15:48, 30 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
OK. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:43, 30 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • This came up in a recent review, so I'll add it here: all the tables indicate "selected chart positions". I'm not sure where to add it, but a statement regarding the selection criteria should be given.
    Not sure what this would look like. I mean if there’s a criteria I guess it’s relevant, major charts he showed up on a lot? There’s not really a criteria since the number of charts he has appeared on is actually fairly limited due to him being a Christian musician (no international charts, no Hot 100, etc.). Toa Nidhiki05 15:48, 30 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If you're not actually excluding any major charts that he appears on and including the ones he shows up on the most, then you've covered it. If he appears a few times on the Billboard 200, Hot 100, or RPM, these may be added as footnotes. The "selected" qualifiers should be removed. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:43, 30 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, that's it. Aside from excluding charts that are typically excluded from discographies (Billboard 200 component charts and catalog charts), there was no real editorial decision here. The AC chart is the only mainstream singles chart he's appeared on AFAIK. I've removed the "selected" qualifier. Toa Nidhiki05 02:15, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support All my concerns have been addressed. —Ojorojo (talk) 20:20, 2 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from Aoba47[edit]

  • I have two suggestions for the image caption. I do not believe it should end with a period because it is not a full sentence. And second, I would add the year that the photo was taken if known to provide some context to the reader.
    Unfortunately the year is not listed in the image, and the flickr source is gone. I have removed the period, however. Toa Nidhiki05 20:46, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Understandable. Thank you for clarifying it though. Aoba47 (talk) 03:19, 26 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would provide some ALT text to the infobox image.
  • I have never seen the first sentence of a discography list explicitly mention the word "discography" before. Usually, the first sentence is "X has released Y". Here are some examples: Taylor Swift discography, Meghan Trainor discography, Lorde discography. I am not saying the current phrasing is wrong per say, but I think it would be better to go with the more accepted and consistent language from other discography featured lists.
  • For this part (in addition to multiple holiday albums, compilation albums, and video releases), I would use the exact number for these rather than "multiple" since an exact number is known for each of these release types.
  • Apologies if this is very obvious, but what do you mean by "Other albums"? The table includes an extended play (Safe in the Arms), a live album (The Live Adventure), and two studio albums (Deep Roots and Deeper Roots: Where the Bluegrass Grows). I do not understand why the Cracker Barrel albums are not included in the "Studio albums" chart as they both appear to be studio albums. I would put Safe in the Arms in an "Extended play" subsection and The Live Adventure in a Live album subsection for clarity.
    It's moreso for organization - having a lot of tables with one item doesn't seem that friendly to readers, at least to me, and the Deep Roots albums, while recorded in a studio, aren't main releases - they are side projects. The second one even has half the songs of the first one. I figured it would be misleading to categorize them alongside the main albums. Toa Nidhiki05 01:49, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I respectfully disagree. I think the "Other albums" subsection and table are not particularly friendly to readers because it is never clearly defined what an "other album" is. Having an extended play (Safe in the Arms) in this subsection makes it even more confusing because an extended play is not the same thing as an album. I also do not fully understand the difference between a "main release" and a "side project". I could understand Deep Roots and Deeper Roots: Where the Bluegrass Grows being put into a separate subsection and table entitled "Bluegrass albums" as you have done with the compilation albums and the holiday albums. I can understand your concern about having multiple tables with one item, but I think the vague "Other albums" title is not an ideal alternative. Aoba47 (talk) 02:29, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I will leave this point up to other editors and the FLC coordinators. I will not press the point further. Aoba47 (talk) 23:07, 21 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    I plan to fix it, just a busy few days! Toa Nidhiki05 00:03, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Take as much time as you need. There is no rush. Aoba47 (talk) 00:26, 22 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Wonderful work with the list. You definitely inspire me to work on a discography list in the near future as I have not done an FLC in a while. Once my comments are addressed, I would be more than happy to support this for promotion. If you have the time and interested, I would greatly appreciate any feedback on my current FAC. Either way, have a great rest of your week! Aoba47 (talk) 20:51, 18 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Aoba47: I have competed this change now I think. There are now separate bluegrass, extended play, and live albums. The other comments should be addressed as well. Toa Nidhiki05 01:35, 28 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for addressing everything. I support this for promotion. Aoba47 (talk) 01:44, 28 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Source review[edit]

  • I would wikilink "Amazon" in the first reference that it is included.
  • The sources are all reliable and properly formatted, and from my brief spot check, everything seems to be accurately supported through these citations.

Once my minor suggestion is addressed, then this pass my source review. Aoba47 (talk) 01:48, 28 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Amazon is now linked. Toa Nidhiki05 03:23, 28 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for addressing that. This passes my source review. Aoba47 (talk) 04:03, 28 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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