Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of songs recorded by Syd Barrett/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by The Rambling Man via FACBot (talk) 19:58, 14 December 2017 (UTC) [1].[reply]

List of songs recorded by Syd Barrett[edit]

List of songs recorded by Syd Barrett (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): BeatlesLedTV (talk) 22:27, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

My other FLC is already far in the process so I'm going to nominate this one. I am nominating this for featured list because I believe it meets all the criteria and has the ability to become featured. If not, I'm open to any suggestions on how to improve it so it does meet the criteria to become featured. BeatlesLedTV (talk) 22:27, 10 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Ojorojo
  • Lead
    • Somewhere in the beginning, it should be briefly noted that this is a list of his recordings as a solo artist and doesn't include PF songs.
    • Check for repetition – "English musician Syd Barrett recorded many songs during his short career as a musician." "One of the founding members of English rock band Pink Floyd, he was the dominant force of the band in their early years, ... and recording several unreleased songs with the band." "in 1969 to begin work on his first solo album," "Barrett began work on his second". "Work on The Madcap Laughs proved difficult, ... Produced by Pink Floyd members David Gilmour and Richard Wright,[5] the sessions proved difficult". "Barrett would record two solo albums, ...left the music business entirely". "Two years later, Barrett would sign a document ending his association with Pink Floyd and any financial interest in future recordings and left the music business entirely". (plus would and entirely don't add anything).
    • "Barrett was excluded from Pink Floyd in April 1968 and was subsequently replaced by guitarist David Gilmour." According to the PF article (and from what I remember reading), Gilmour was brought in before Barrett was left out.
    • Unneeded words – "the majority of the material found on their first album," (found doesn't add anything). "His first and only single" (if it was his only single, then it would be his first, last, etc.). "The Madcap Laughs and Barrett would be double-paired" (would and double don't add anything). "In 1988, Barrett himself approved the release of Opel," (himself doesn't add anything).
    • "alternate takes of songs from his solo albums, as well as Opel." The Crazy Diamond article seems to indicated that it includes all of TML, Barrett, and Opel, plus alt takes.
    • "The greatest hits album Wouldn't You Miss Me? followed suit," (his only single single never charted; compilation or collection is a better description).
    • "Vegetable Man" and "Scream Thy Last Scream" were previously going to be released on Opel, but was blocked by Pink Floyd." (the songs are already mentioned in the previous sentence; album details are unneeded).
    • Since this is a list of songs, there could be less emphasis on his albums. For example, "Barrett's highly sought-after song "Bob Dylan Blues" was issued on WYMM and the previously unreleased twenty-minute long instrumental "Rhamadan" is included as a bonus track on the AITSB CD."
    • Maybe add something about the style of his songs, contrast/similarity to PF songs, which are particularly noteworthy, etc.
—Ojorojo (talk) 16:16, 27 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed mostly everything. Also I can't get a picture of Barrett on the page because every picture of him Wikipedia has is under fair use. BeatlesLedTV (talk) 17:59, 28 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good. Have you tried a google-type search for images in the public domain? Without his photo, I wonder if the other photos should be included. —Ojorojo (talk) 19:03, 28 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I found some photos of him through google that are labeled for noncommercial reuse. The original photos were posted on flickr. Would I have to contact any of the users that posted them or just upload them here? BeatlesLedTV (talk) 21:34, 28 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia:Image use policy includes "Note that images that are licensed for use only on Wikipedia, or only for non-commercial or educational use, or under a license that doesn't allow for the creation of modified/derived works, are unsuitable." Flickr images usually note "may be subject to copyright". I doubt that most who uploaded the images know anything about the copyrights. Sydbarrett.com[2] has some photos marked "1968 Spring photoshoot, photographer unknown", but I don't know if they're OK to use. Maybe ask them.[3] —Ojorojo (talk) 13:46, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Alright I'll ask them. BeatlesLedTV (talk) 19:56, 29 October 2017 (UTC) Follow up. I got permission from them to use a photo whose photographer is unknown. I'm working on uploading it to Wikipedia and figuring out the copyright issue because I was told that they cannot claim copyright nor deny me permission to upload it as they specifically don't own it. BeatlesLedTV (talk) 21:03, 29 October 2017 (UTC) You can't upload images with an unknown copyright so I'm going to work on obtaining a copyright use for image with the photographer known. BeatlesLedTV (talk) 23:05, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Ojorojo I've been talking to the estate management office of Barrett and I received the ok to use an image of Barrett from 1967 however I'm not sure if I want to use it. All I was offered was pictures of Barrett when he was still with Pink Floyd and this page is about his solo songs. Also, I don't have all the information needed to upload it so I don't think I'm going to bother. Is a picture of him really needed for this page? BeatlesLedTV (talk) 21:56, 2 November 2017 (UTC) Update. The only image of Barrett I've found on Wikimedia that's not fair use is this one, although it's not an actual image, it's a drawing of him that's actually pretty accurate. Although I don't think it's good to use a drawing of someone for an official page like this. What do you think? BeatlesLedTV (talk) 01:09, 3 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You've done a good job exploring all the possibilities, but I don't think the drawing or a PF-era photo is optimal. Again, without a good image of him, including the other photos seems unnecessary (PF members & Joyce seems incongruous). It's not a deal breaker, but I'd like to see what others think. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:03, 4 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The images don't seem to concern other editors, so your approach is OK. The article needs a source/ref review – I'll try to do it in the next few days. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:40, 15 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Ojorojo Thanks very much. Care to check out my new FLC? BeatlesLedTV (talk) 22:00, 15 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Structure & Style – No problems here. You have the formatting, etc., down from a previous FLC, although the period at the end of "Name of song, producer(s), ..." is not needed. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:28, 16 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Stability – OK. This list has been largely untouched since 2012 and there are no comments on the talk page. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:28, 16 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comprehensive – Double checked with AllMusic and all his solo songs are included (the split of "Waving My Arms in the Air"/"I Never Lied to You" is noted). —Ojorojo (talk) 17:15, 16 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • References
  • The info in the links to the album labels and notes all check out. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:15, 16 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Pink Floyd HyperBase is a personal website. Crawfurd lists his sources, but seems to add some of his own commentary. He also includes some complete song lyrics, which may be a copyvio. Is he included as a source in any books about Barrett or otherwise seen as an authority? —Ojorojo (talk) 17:15, 16 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Not that I've seen. I could find a link that possibly shows some of Barrett's unreleased songs. Update: I replaced that ref with a CoS ref that talks about unreleased songs being released on Early Years
Better. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:27, 16 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sydbarrett.net appears to be user generated and Jones and other source info is not in the linked page. Is there a better link or source for this? —Ojorojo (talk) 17:15, 16 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Basically this is a PDF of Malcolm Jones book The Making of The Madcap Laughs posted to sydbarrett.net. I can try to find the actual book with actual page numbers I just thought this would be easier as the whole thing is right there. It's also spoken in first person.
Maybe cite the book, but include the link in the URL field. —Ojorojo (talk) 18:27, 16 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I found the actual book in one PDF and made a new ref to that. I wasn't able to find the ISBN number for it. BeatlesLedTV (talk) 18:49, 16 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nice. That will do. —Ojorojo (talk) 19:01, 16 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Awesome. So status on review? BeatlesLedTV (talk) 19:04, 16 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • The website appears as "Official Charts". Perhaps use |website=, instead of |publisher= and wikilink Official Charts. —Ojorojo (talk) 17:15, 16 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • The cite:web format for AllMusic should be consistent. One includes "Octopus - Syd Barrett : Listen, Appearances, Song Review", but something like "Syd Barrett: Octopus – Review" should be sufficient. Generally, en dashes should be used instead of hyphens. Also link the first appearance of the author's name (the other refs should also have authorlinks). —Ojorojo (talk) 17:15, 16 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Ojorojo Fixed what you commented on. Notes are above. Thanks very much! BeatlesLedTV (talk) 18:03, 16 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Authors with WP articles should be linked: Thompson, Gilmore, Fricke, Chapman, Tolinski, Schaffner, et al. It adds to credibility. —Ojorojo (talk) 19:54, 18 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Done. BeatlesLedTV (talk) 21:47, 18 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Stranger page includes a link to "Rhamadan", which has been removed (probably copyvio). This ref doesn't look like it's needed and should be removed —Ojorojo (talk) 18:27, 16 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Removed. BeatlesLedTV (talk) 18:36, 16 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Watkinson, Mike; Pete Anderson. Crazy Diamond: Syd Barrett & the Dawn of Pink Floyd." – This should also use cite:book, unless there is a reason not to. —Ojorojo (talk) 19:54, 18 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed BeatlesLedTV (talk) 21:47, 18 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • "pinkfloyd-co" – "pinkfloyd.com" looks like the official website. Pinkfloyd-co.com & pinkfloyd.co.com appear to be fans sites. —Ojorojo (talk) 19:54, 18 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Removed sentence entirely. Felt it was unneeded. BeatlesLedTV (talk) 21:47, 18 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from FrB.TG (talk) 20:59, 30 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
;Comments
  • Is it not possible to use the image that is present in his biography (although I appreciate that it is non-free).
It's under fair use so it can only be used for that article only. Currently working on obtaining copyright permission.
  • "English musician Syd Barrett" - since this is a British subject, the article should really be written in British English. This opening line is the AmEng way of introducing a person. Using the definite article is certainly British English and should be used here and from herein.
Fixed
  • "writing the majority of the material on their first album" - debut should be more preferable although it's nitpick-y.
Fixed
  • "excluded from Pink Floyd in April 1968. After Pink Floyd" - repetition of Pink Floyd in close proximity. Can't we just replace "after Pink Floyd" simply with "Later"?
Changed to "After his departure"
  • Also I am not impressed with the way the aforementioned sentence is currently (especially using after and before in the same sentence): "After Pink Floyd, Barrett recorded two solo albums, both released in 1970, before Barrett left the music business in 1972".
"before Barrett" → "until he"; let me know if this should be changed as well.
  • "After leaving Pink Floyd" - why do we need to repeat this?
Removed.
  • "Released in January 1970, the album garnered positive reviews from critics[3]" - I am not a fan of the ref's placement here. Can't we just shift it to the end of sentence? It's not a quote that we should place it right after where it ends.
Fixed
  • It might be worth mentioning the year he died or sticking (1946-2006) at the beginning of the article.
Fixed. Could've sore I put the year he died in it.
  • an EP containing recordings Barrett performed for the John Peel Top Gear show on 24 February 1970, contained the unreleased song "Two of a Kind" - contain ... contain
Fixed
  • The next greatest hits album - wiki-link greatest hits
Fixed
  • they were going to be - not a fan of going to here, perhaps meant to or supposed to?
Fixed
  • It might help using {{Abbr}} for Ref in the table.
Fixed

Interesting list. I'll admit I have an ulterior motive, that I hope you might consider reviewing Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Beyoncé videography/archive1. – FrB.TG (talk) 20:59, 30 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Thanks for your comments and sure I'll take a look right now! BeatlesLedTV (talk) 03:03, 31 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for taking care of these. In the future, note that (per FLC) "nominators should not cap, alter, strike, break up, or add graphics to comments from other editors". I will add my final judgement of the article in due course, but I am interested to know the other reviewer's opinion. FrB.TG (talk) 14:44, 1 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Ah that makes sense. Thanks for letting me know I'll make sure to not do that again. BeatlesLedTV (talk) 17:57, 1 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 11:59, 14 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • Probably a good idea to put birth/death years in intro sentence for temporal context.
  • " many songs during his short career. " too vague, unencyclopedic.
Changed to "short two-year solo career"
  • " their second one," no need for "one"
  • "Due to increasing mental illness, guitarist David Gilmour was hired as a possible replacement for Barrett." maybe "As a result of Barrett's increasing mental illness, ... as his possible replacement."
  • Lots of references needed, e.g. claims like "When his condition worsened, he was officially excluded from Pink Floyd in April 1968. After his departure, Barrett recorded two solo albums, both released in 1970, until he left the music business in 1972." need serious reliable sourcing.
  • " David Gilmour and Roger Waters and Barrett " comma after Waters.
  • " album garnered positive " "garnered" isn't really BritEng, so perhaps "received" will do.
  • " and enjoyed minimal " sounds odd to say "and .. minimal" perhaps "and enjoyed moderate"?
  • "second and final album" solo.
  • " the sessions were difficult like his first album but was recorded..." badly phrased, needs rewording.
Removed "were difficult like his first album". Felt it was unneeded.
  • "were paired and released on Syd Barrett " on or as? – as
  • "died at his home in Cambridge, England in" comma after England.
  • " The first of these, The Peel Session, an EP contain recordings Barrett performed for the John Peel Top Gear show on 24 February 1970, contain the unreleased" grammar fail.
  • " they were meant to be released earlier but was blocked by Pink Floyd" reads very odd to me. "were ... was..."
Changed both to were
  • Avoid shouting in refs, e.g. ref 4.
  • Some of your online refs have accessdates, some don't, be consistent.

The Rambling Man (talk) 22:07, 1 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Giants2008 PresN There's multiple supports and a source review has already been done. This one good to go? BeatlesLedTV (talk) 20:39, 1 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comments
    • "contain the unreleased song "Two of a Kind"" => "contains the unreleased song "Two of a Kind""
    • Remove the brackets in note E
    • That's all I could find -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 21:13, 11 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - seems good to go now -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:42, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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