Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Celebrity Big Brother (American TV series) episodes/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was archived by Giants2008 via FACBot (talk) 20:12:10 6 October 2019 (UTC) [1].

List of Celebrity Big Brother (American TV series) episodes[edit]

List of Celebrity Big Brother (American TV series) episodes (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Alucard 16❯❯❯ chat? 06:39, 22 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because I believe that it is a comprehensive list of the material and a great addition to Wikipedia's featured list of episodes. After reviewing the criteria for a featured list I believe this list meets all the criteria. I also looked at all the similar lists and realized that no reality show has a FL list of this nature so it would be great for a reality TV show to have a list of this nature pass the FL process. Alucard 16❯❯❯ chat? 06:39, 22 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from ChrisTheDude
  • When we have lists of episodes for dramas/sitcoms/etc, normally there's a two or three sentence summary of each episode, but here there's nothing, so I can't glean anything about the content of the episodes from the list. Could a brief summary of the key moments in each episode not be given........? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:44, 7 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Fair enough, if it's the norm then I guess that's OK. My other comments:
    • "last remaining HouseGuest in order to win a grand prize of $250,000" - I don't know how important it is to mention this in this article, but do the celebs actually receive the money themselves? I only ask because here in the UK celebrity editions of quiz shows, reality shows, etc, without exception have the celebs playing for a nominated charity rather than looking to pocket the money themselves.
    • "Allison Grodner and Rich Meehan serve as executive producers and is produced" - missing "the show" or similar before "is produced"
    • need a comma after "host of the series"
    • Not sure the words "on multiple nights" are needed. If it airs over more than two weeks then obviously the episodes aren't all on one night.
  • Think that's it from me -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:29, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • @ChrisTheDude: I fixed the second through fourth issues. In the American version the winning celebrity receives the money themselves. Even I found this a bit odd at first as this is the first American celebrity reality show I know of where the winner receives the grand prize instead of it being donated to charity. Alucard 16❯❯❯ chat? 09:29, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • Fair enough, I wasn't sure if it was just us Brits who deemed that celebs didn't need the money for themselves ;-) I am now happy to support this nom -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:39, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comments from Gonnym
  • I'd rearrange a bit the lead so instead of Celebrity Big Brother, also known as Big Brother: Celebrity Edition, is an American reality television series that premiered on CBS as counterprogramming to NBC's coverage of the 2018 Winter Olympics on February 7, 2018. and The show is a spin-off of the American adaption of Big Brother created by John de Mol. change to Celebrity Big Brother, also known as Big Brother: Celebrity Edition, is the American adaptation of the reality competition television franchise Big Brother, which was created by John de Mol. The series premiered on CBS... or instead "adaptation of the reality competition television franchise Celebrity Big Brother" which is more precise.
  • including competitions and the nomination/eviction process. - MOS:SLASH so maybe "including competitions and the nomination and eviction process."
  • In note "a" (both of them) you have "Days" with an uppercase "D" - it's a normal word so should be lowercase.
  • In the reference section you have 2 section headers which should follow MOS:HEAD and act as normal section headers (== ==).
  • The image used should have an "alt", see MOS:IMAGESYNTAX
  • Not required by the FL criteria (no idea why not), but would help and nice to have, is to add archive links to the refs so this article won't have WP:link rot.

Other than that looks good. --Gonnym (talk) 13:43, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thanks for the review Gonnym! I fixed all the issues you mentioned and I reworded the notes in the table. With the English language adaptions of Big Brother they capitalize the word Day(s) when talking about a specific time in the house. The American & Canadian versions will also capitalize week if someone is talking about "Week 2", etc. Here is an article from CBS where day and week is capitalized when referring to a specific day or week. Alucard 16❯❯❯ chat? 16:23, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose I would expect to see a synopsis of the major events in each episode, especially given that there are only 26 in total. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:57, 11 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@The Rambling Man: The reasoning for this is explained above after the issue raised by ChrisTheDude. It's not possible because of the way the template is set up. TheDoctorWho (talk) 18:49, 11 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Then don't use the template. That's hardly a reason for avoiding a synopsis of each episode. This, in my opinion, does not qualify as part of Wikipedia's finest work as it stands. Don't get overtaken by templates, even just handcrafting the table would be better than trying to excuse a lack of detail. The template is clearly insufficient. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:04, 11 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@The Rambling Man: Okay what about this being a reason for avoiding a synopsis of each episode? This is the standard on list of television series episode articles including featured lists such as List of Dexter episodes, List of Millennium episodes, List of Quantico episodes, and List of Lost episodes. It also follows MOS:TV specifically the paragraph that reads It may be necessary to break the episode list into individual season or story arc lists. [...] If this is done, the main list of episodes should still contain the entire episode list, appropriately sectioned, without the episode summaries. Each section should have a {{main}} link to the sublist.. TheDoctorWho (talk) 01:50, 12 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Well times have changed. And I'm sorry, I cannot support this as being amongst Wikipedia's finest works. The Rambling Man (talk) 06:25, 12 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@The Rambling Man: thank you for your comments and with all due respects I followed MOS:TV when creating this article and looked at various list of featured episode lists to find the appropriate table setup to use for this article. While this series is short with 26 episodes currently it has individual season articles where the episodes are summarized. All the featured lists I looked at with this setup do not have episode summaries even the series with less than 40 episodes that could accommodate short episode summaries. Instead of going against the established guideline would summarizing each season similar to List of Lost episodes work for this article? Alucard 16❯❯❯ chat? 07:29, 12 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I think the Lost example you've given is a reasonable compromise. If you could write a few paras on each season as a summary, then I could be convinced to reverse my position. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:44, 21 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for the delay The Rambling Man I've added the paragraphs to the seasons as requested. Alucard 16❯❯❯ chat? 05:42, 7 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
No worries, I've struck my oppose. Cheers. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:41, 10 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

  • This may be a question that's bigger than this FLC, but is the 'No. in season' column really necessary, given the 'Title' column? It seems a little redundant to me. Obviously Episode, say, 7 is going to the the seventh episode in the season. I may bring it up at Wikipedia:WikiProject Television...
  • The caption in the lead image isn't a complete sentence, so doesn't need a terminating period.
  • "purpose built" -> "purpose-built"
  • "Julie Chen Moonves continues her role as host of the series, a position she ...". This confused me the first time I read it, as I didn't know that she had hosted the regular series. How about "Julie Chen Moonves hosts the series, continuing a position she ..." instead?
  • Both the Season 1 and 2 sections seem quite under-referenced to me. This might be fine if this were an article on a fictional TV series (per MOS:PLOTSOURCE), but, since we're dicussing living people here, it might be best to err on the side of caution and make sure that the text is fully-referenced, even if that just means citing to the CBB episodes themselves.
  • In the Season 1 section, I don't think you need to repeat the phrase "grand prize of $250,000" quite so quickly.
  • What are the "Head of Household" competitions? They're mentioned out of nowhere without any context given for what they are and what they represent. Presumably the houseguests competed in regular challenges, which meant that they were exempt from eviction, or something like that?
  • "season long" -> "season-long"
  • "Days 14-20" -> "Days 1420"
  • "never used it where she wasn't nominated for eviction". I didn't really follow this. Do you mean she never used it because she wasn't nominated for eviction? Also, avoid contractions in prose.
  • Could you maybe write a paragraph about the show's ratings for the Ratings section? I don't think I've never seen a level 2 header with nothing but one image in it. You could just merge the sentences about ratings from the Season 1 and 2 sections into it, then maybe say, for example, which episode was the highest-rated of each season. Happy to help, if you'd like.
  • Most of the publishers in the References section aren't wikilinked. Is there any particular reason for this?
  • Avoid shouting in reference titles (see citation 3).

A Thousand Doors (talk | contribs) 01:14, 20 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@A Thousand Doors: Thanks for reviewing this! I've implemented most changes sorry for not getting back sooner work has implemented mandatory overtime and its been brutal LOL. Here is some things that I haven't done yet or some comments I have:
  • I will be going back and adding references to the summaries to Season 1 and Season 2. All of this information is backed up and verifiable by the episodes but I totally understand your point of wanting to err on side of caution here since we are dealing living people here. I will try to use the episodes since I currently subscribe to CBS All Access and episode recaps from reliable sources like Entertainment Weekly as well.
  • I added a new summarized paragraph in Season 1 describing the elimination process which explains the regular competitions and terms such as Head of Household and Power of Veto, etc.
  • I moved the two lines about the season averages to the ratings section I will be going back to expand upon them later like you suggested when I go to add the references to the summaries. I'm gonna try to do this on my days off this week (around Tuesday-Thursday hopefully).
  • Had to edit the actual pages since the tables are just translucent here. Some publishers are not wikilinked like Programming Insider because they don't have a English Wikipedia page and some like TV By The Numbers were wikilinked once I was unsure if they should be wikilinked everytime so I went back and made sure they were.
  • For the reference (like citation 3) I thought we had to copy the title exactly as written so since the press release used all caps I did here. Sorry about that.
  • I can't remove the "Title" column it is required by default and the show doesn't name the episodes so these default titles are used. If I remove the "No. in season" column then "No. overall" defaults to just "No." which may cause some confusion to new readers. What's your take on this?
Thanks again for the comments! Alucard 16❯❯❯ chat? 09:42, 3 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Alucard 16: This nomination seems to have stalled out; are you still working on this? @A Thousand Doors: Did Alucard address all of your points? It seems they have some open questions for you. --PresN 03:20, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@PresN: Sorry about this due to RL work commitments I had to unexpectedly stop working on all my Wiki commitments for a period of time. I'm still working on this as my top priority but my work has slowed considerably. I just finished one of A Thousand Doors big comments which was to source the season summaries since this is a reality show dealing with real people to alleviate any potential BLP concerns. I'm gonna wrap up work on their second big comment today which is to create a summary of the ratings section and then barring any other comments all work should be complete. I had already addressed A Thousand Doors' other concerns in my comments above. Alucard 16❯❯❯ chat? 12:46, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@PresN: I just completed work on the last comment from A Thousand Doors which was to add a summary to the ratings section to go along with the ratings graph. While writing several drafts I realized I kept writing the same summary I created for the parent article back in April. So I used the List of Game of Thrones episodes as an example tweaked the summary on the parent article and transcluded it from Celebrity Big Brother (American TV series)#Ratings. This should address all of A Thousand Doors' comments. Alucard 16❯❯❯ chat? 21:39, 24 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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