Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/William Anderson (RAAF officer)/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 18 September 2023 [1].

William Anderson (RAAF officer)[edit]

Nominator(s): Ian Rose (talk) 19:38, 27 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Bill Anderson was one of the founding members of the Royal Australian Air Force. Among his claims to fame: sharing in the first aerial victory credited to No. 3 Squadron of the Australian Flying Corps in World War I; earning the first Distinguished Flying Cross awarded to an Australian; and serving the shortest term as Chief of the Air Staff (one month)...! Although third in seniority to Richard Williams and Stanley Goble for most of his career, Anderson never made as much of an impact on the RAAF's development. He appears to have been well liked but there's the suspicion that he gained his promotions and commands more through convenience and length of tenure than ability and sound judgement (surely not the only such officer!). In any case I hope you find his story interesting, and look forward to your comments. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 19:38, 27 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

  • File:RAAFAirBoard1930.jpg: why is this believed to be Crown copyright? Nikkimaria (talk) 19:55, 27 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • Hi Nikki, I'd assumed it was an official RAAF photo (a Miss Joyce, presumably the daughter of Albert Joyce, one of the board members in the photo, is credited with supplying the copy but I don't think it's implied that she took it). Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 22:18, 27 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      The image is PD either way. Suggest just changing the template to PD-Australia. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 00:44, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Hawkeye7[edit]

My first thought was that Wil Anderson was a comedian.

  • "and Major Anderson" No need for "major" here.
    • Done.
  • I found the Ameria J incident interesting enough to look it up. [2] has a pic of Anderson. [3] Apparently the Ameria J did indeed go down. [4] The men lost were Captain W. J. Stutt and Sergeant A. G. Dalzell. [5][6] Apparently all that was found was Stutts life preserver. (No action required.)
  • A pity the RAAF didn't keep that dress uniform. (No action required.)
  • "interviewed Reg Pollard" who went on to become Chief of the General staff.
    • Could add but felt it might be too much detail there...
      The point here is that both went on to distinguished careers. In fact, while imo the best choice was made, it could easily imagined that if the decision had gone the other way, Pollard might have become Chief of the Air Staff and Scherger the Chief of the General Staff. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 00:44, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      Sure, sliding doors -- okay, done. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 08:50, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the RAAF Director of Transport and Equipment, George Mackinolty" rank?
    • I'd just be an educated guess as the source doesn't specify that...
  • Link 1933 Birthday Honours
    • Done.
  • I would add that Maitland Boucher was a British Royal Navy officer. He was such a distinguished officer that the RN forcibly retired him the day his two-year secondment to the RAN ended in January 1941.
    • Done.

Looks good to me. Happy to support. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:17, 27 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Hawkeye! Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 23:19, 27 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support by Nick-D[edit]

This article is in good shape - I have only some generally minor comments.

  • The sentence in the lead starting with 'He flew with the Australian Flying Corps in World War I' is a bit over-complex
    • Hi Nick, I agree there's a fair bit in there but I think splitting it might result in stubby sentences -- did you have a suggestion for how to re-express?
      • Perhaps one sentence for his role as a pilot (for which he seems to have earned the medals) and the other for his role as a commanding officer? The lead is on the short side, so you could add a bit of detail about the CO roles (e.g. that 7 Squadron was a training outfit and 3 Squadron a combat unit) Nick-D (talk) 10:57, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "in what was then German New Guinea" - this is a bit unclear given that it was Australian-occupied at the time (which explains why Anderson was there)
    • Australian-occupied yes but I believe it was still known as German New Guinea for the duration of the war (cited sources also refers to it as such).
      • Yes, but readers who are unaware of the occupation (which will likely be most of them) will be confused. I'd suggest changing this to 'Australian-occupied German New Guinea' or similar. Nick-D (talk) 10:57, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Can anything more be said about Anderson's time as commanding officer of No. 3 Squadron? Possibly not as the war ended at this time (I'm not sure if it also was taken off the front line for a rest when the Australian Corps was at this time)
    • Sure, I could add that it re-equipped with Bristol Fighters about the time he took over, and a bit about its post-war activity.
  • "That December, Anderson and Brownell interviewed Reg Pollard and Frederick Scherger, two undergraduates at the Royal Military College, Duntroon, who had applied to transfer to the RAAF" - is this and the next sentence needed? It seems to give greater emphasis than necessary to what would have been a routine part of Anderson's job (I imagine that he also interviewed officer cadets who went on to have unsuccessful or unremarkable careers)
    • I was a bit in two minds about adding this bit in but Coulthard-Clark gave it space in the pre-war official history -- I'm happy to bow to consensus on it but I think Hawkeye finds it noteworthy...
  • I'd suggest expanding on Anderson's period as head of Eastern Area; this was one of the peak periods for the ASW campaign, and was a key command as a result (he seems to have left just before the mid-1943 ASW crisis, though I wonder if he played a role in its causes? - coordination between the RAAF and Navy in this area left a lot to be desired). David Stevens' book A Critical Vulnerability should have some material on this topic, though it doesn't mention Anderson by name
    • Yeah, I think I left out Stevens' book because it never referred directly to Anderson, but I've adapted some content from the Eastern Area Command article that utilises it, let me know what you think...
  • I hope that your next RAAF FAC is on the RAAF's dress uniform of the late 1930s! Nick-D (talk) 10:34, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • Yes I'm glad I included that image, it seems to have made quite an impression -- the uniform struck me as simultaneously splendid and comical, but I think old Bill wears it well...! Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 21:37, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      • I did wonder if it was one of the reasons the RAAF struggled to retain good officers at this time! Nick-D (talk) 10:57, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The changes here look good, and I'm happy to support this nomination. Nick-D (talk) 11:19, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Source review[edit]

No spotcheck needed, will look at formatting/reliability. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 00:59, 3 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Locations in sources are inconsistent; e.g., Ashworth 2000 uses just the city, but Sewell 1999 includes the state too
    • I've just included the state for non-capital cities.
  • Helson 2006: I've seen PhD, DPhil, and Ph.D., but never Ph. D. Could just be dialect, but the space may be a typo
    • I think you're right, went for Ph.D.
  • IMO, it's best to convert ISBNs to version 13 (useful tool in case you wanted one)
    • What I try to do is use the ISBN format as it appears on the edition I used -- for some its 13, for most its 10 -- more than happy to double-check these to ensure I'm doing this consistently.
      WP:ISBN: Please use the ISBN-13 if both are provided by the original work. The ISBN-13 is often found near the barcode and will start with either 978- or 979-. However, if an older work only lists an ISBN-10, use that in citations instead of calculating an ISBN-13 for it. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 07:58, 3 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      Tks Hawkeye, yes that's what I'm aiming for. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 08:03, 3 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      Now I see, thanks Hawkeye for the WP page! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 13:29, 3 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ian Rose, I got nothing else, fantastic job on consistency! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 00:59, 3 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks very much for reviewing. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 07:35, 3 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support - BTW, if you get time, would appreciate any comments at this FAC. Thanks! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) (not me) (also not me) (still no) 13:30, 3 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support by Zawed[edit]

This is in great shape. Minor nitpicks and I suspect that perhaps some of these could be a matter of style preference:

  • From the lead combat service with Nos. 3 Squadron on : "Nos."?
  • Early life section as battery commander at Rabaul,: should that be "a battery commander"
  • Interwar section in charge of Central Flying School (CFS) at Point Cook, Victoria.: grammatically, should that be "the Central..."?
    • Heh, an interesting one -- since WWII it doesn't seem to take the definite article but in its early days they tended to use "the", so we probably should here...
  • Interwar section The young Air Force staged many public displays: Is the usage of "Air Force" here and elsewhere for variety or should that be expressed as RAAF?
    • Used mainly for variety but I could probably swap a few to "RAAF" if you think best...
  • World War II section seconded from the Royal Air Force, : introduce the RAF abbreviation since it is used later in the section.
  • Retirement: Hippolyte (Frank) De La Rue,: don't think the bracketed nickname is necessary or perhaps pipelink as Frank De La Rue?

As noted, in great shape all round. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 10:08, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Tks Zawed! Actioned all except the "Air Force" one... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 12:01, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Zawed, did you want to follow up? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 21:05, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
All good here, happy to support. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 22:33, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from JennyOz[edit]

Hello Ian, only a few comments from me...

  • EngvarB not Australian?
  • good article - move to below short description

lede

  • The service's third most senior officer - hyphen third-most? see "playing" below

Early life and World War I

  • artillery ranging - what is that? any link available?
    • Made "artillery spotting" -- this does have a redirect to artillery observer but that's mainly about ground-based spotting, I figure "spotting" is still more intuitively clear than "ranging"?
  • John Bell - are observers also pilots? just checking that it's not John Bell (footballer, born 1886)?
    • The observer could in theory be a pilot but they were there to look about and to fire the aircraft's defensive weaponry -- I don't think the R.E.8 was dual control. Incidentally, I believe this John Bell is the future husband of Mary Bell.

Inter-war years

  • becoming its third most senior officer - see playing below
  • was duly formed at Point Cook later that year - "later" is redundant to a proposal?
  • took part in a mock dogfight - link
  • gave a demonstration of balloon busting - better link Balloon buster?
  • RAAF's first air chief marshal, while - better link Air chief marshal (Australia)?
  • According to the official post-war history of the Air Force - I'm confused (but you need non-milhist reviewers to own up, right?) "official post-war history" had me thinking it covered WWI, but that book is 1921 to 1939 so it's RAAF til WWII? (Cutlack wrote the official history of AFC 1914–1918 as part of CEW Bean's work?)
    • God, that was a howler -- I meant pre-war, not post-war.
  • Joe Hewitt found him "admirable" - introduce Hewitt? without clicking on link, one might think him an author or something else

Captions

References

Categories?

  • Category:People educated at Melbourne Grammar School
  • Category:Recipients of the Croix de guerre (Belgium)

Playing with compounds, consider...

  • Ten of the RAAF's most senior officers walk into a bar assemble in a meeting room. Andrews was the third most senior officer to arrive. Smith was the last of the most senior officers to arrive.
Of the ten, Air Chief Marshal John Jones was the most-senior officer, Air Commodore Bob Smith was the second-most senior officer and Bill Brown was the third-most senior officer in attendance. Andrews, a group captain, was the seventh-most senior officer. White was the least-senior officer and the fourth senior officer to arrive.
Not asking for a definitive answer here, just flummoxed. I've read so much about when to or not hyphenate - our own MOS and more. (Some even say third-most-senior, or third most-senior... good grief!)
However, the use here is not ambiguous so... no problem. But any suggestions for "going forward" will be welcome!
Ha, sorry, but I don't think I want to go here... ;-)

Another interesting bio, thank you Ian. JennyOz (talk) 11:29, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Jenny -- I think I've actioned and/or acknowledged every point. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 11:55, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Ian, happy to s'port. JennyOz (talk) 10:25, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You're a good s'port... ;-) Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 10:33, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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