Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/These Are the Voyages...

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Raul654 04:11, 19 February 2009 [1].

These Are the Voyages...[edit]

Nominator(s): Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk)

The final episode of the ill-fated Star Trek: Enterprise; article has undergone a copyedit and peer review, thanks to all who participated. In response to Ealdgyth's concerns about sources, I offer the following defenses of three sources: TrekNation is a long-standing website owned by UGO Networks and the Hearst Corporation; TrekWeb is less-so (it's hard to fine good mentions in other media to establish reputation when their own stories pop up, but it does have an editor and is only being used to cite someone's opinion, not the views of the site itself.) iF magazine is once again being used only for the interviewee's words, and apparently they do lots of interviews like it. The also have a chief editor and several assistant editors.[2] --Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk) 01:49, 12 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support: All of my concerns have been resolved, and I think that the article passes the FA criteria. I made a few minor tweaks to punctuation and grammar, and added {{update after}} so that when the new movie comes out the sentence about it will be updated as soon as possible. -Drilnoth (talk) 14:05, 12 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments: I haven't read the whole article yet, but I've noticed a few places which need citations; at the moment they look like they could be original research.
    • "The show was moved to Fridays in 2004, while the rest of UPN's programming became more female-friendly, in part due to the success of America's Next Top Model."
    • "UPN executives stated that the male-oriented audience of Enterprise did not mesh with the viewership of its other top shows, such as Top Model and Veronica Mars."
    • "a sentiment echoed by producer Rick Berman"
    • "peaking about the cancellation of the series, Braga defended the series and also noted that when The Next Generation was on the air, there was little competition from other science fiction shows, while Enterprise had to contend with a plethora of shows such as Battlestar Galactica."
    • "Despite the cancellation, the fourth season continued production so that Paramount could sell an attractive 98 episodes to syndicates."
  • Also, "Star Trek" should always be italicized. -Drilnoth (talk) 02:47, 12 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • I fixed the italics. As for the above statements, they are all sourced, just not after the immediate sentence. It's much easier to read to just source everything at the end. --Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk) 03:39, 12 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • Thanks. I really couldn't tell about the refs; is there any way that you could reformat that to prevent confusion? -Drilnoth (talk) 03:41, 12 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • Not really; I've had reviewers complain when sentences.[1] looked like[1] this[2], so I jus try and make sure where one bit of information is sourced and where another begins. Doing it excessively just makes it a pain to read. --Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk) 03:49, 12 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
          • Excellent point. I'll probably finish my review tomorrow. -Drilnoth (talk) 03:52, 12 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note I removed the cap because WP:FAC instructions say to use caps sparingly for template limit and load time reasons. This is a relatively short discussion, please use strikeouts instead. Dabomb87 (talk) 23:07, 12 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ah; I see. -Drilnoth (talk) 23:35, 12 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments - David highlighted the concerns I have with the sources, but they are such that I'd leave them for other reviewers to decide for themselves. The TrekWeb bit, as long as it's only expressing TrekWeb's opinion, is fine. TrekNation is a bit more of a concern, it would be nice to find other sources for this information. Same for iF, but again, its enough on the fence for me to leave it for other reviewers to decide for themselves. (not watching this FAC, by the way). Ealdgyth - Talk 14:38, 12 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Leaning oppose Was not terribly impressed by what I read (the lead and Background and cancellation)
    • "The story takes place during the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "The Pegasus"," I was confused by this.
    • "Riker visits the holodeck and turns to the events of the 22nd century for guidance" We're not told when this episode takes place before this, so this reads rather odd for non-Trekkies like me.
    • "quickly slipped as the season continued to a low of 5.9 million viewers" Conflict with word choice ("slipped as...continued...a low"). "As" sets up a cause (for example, "as production ran into problems") but we're instead given a result.
    • "Enterprise to Star Trek: Enterprise" Any significance in the name change? Why was it done?
    • "Various reasons were given for the series' failure." Such an unnecessarily generic sentence (especially with lack of subject for the passive, and "give" as the verb choice).
    • "Actress Jolene Blalock (T'Pol) criticized the early stories, saying that they were boring and lacked intriguing content" Redundancies ("criticized the early stories as boring and lacking in intriguing content").
    • "she felt early" Spot the missing word.
    • "male-oriented audience" A program can be male-oriented. An audience cannot.
    • "from drawing on Star Trek too much in an attempt to milk the franchise for cash" Did not get what this is trying to say; rather generic. What does "drawing on" and "too much" mean? Be more specific. Milk...for cash is rather colloquial.
    • "Speaking about the cancellation of the series, Braga defended the series and also noted that when The Next Generation was on the air, there was little competition from other science fiction shows, while Enterprise had to contend with a plethora of shows such as Battlestar Galactica." Another opportunity to tighten the prose. "Braga defended the series, noting that The Next Generation faced little competition..." etc.
    • "Despite the cancellation, the fourth season continued production" Don't understand the use of "despite the cancellation" here. Earlier, we're given "On February 3, UPN and Paramount announced that the fourth season of the show would be its last." Therefore, why would it be a surprise that they continued production? Also, the rest of that sentence seems to suggest that the only reason production was continued was for syndication purposes.
    • "Berman would not comment on the final episode..." Sentence does not fit well with the narrative flow of the paragraph. BuddingJournalist 16:09, 12 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • Comment: I think that I fixed all of those, although I'm not sure about whether one reference is still accurate after a change (as noted in my edit summary). Could someone who has the source take a look? Thanks. -Drilnoth (talk) 17:48, 12 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • The citation is still fine. --Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk) 17:53, 12 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
          • Okay; just wanted to check. -Drilnoth (talk) 17:57, 12 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
            • The last two sentences still stick out like a sore thumb in that paragraph. They have little to do with the content of the rest of the paragraph. Also: "Berman would not comment on the final episode, saying" <-- Contradictory. If folks can vouch for the other sections being relatively problem-free, then I will strike my oppose and revisit, but I'd recommend giving a full audit of the prose based on what I read. BuddingJournalist 23:05, 12 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've fixed the Braga comment with some clarification; as to the two sentences you feel are tacked on, which ones? --Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk) 23:33, 12 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • I think he means "Before its release, Berman would not elaborate on the final episode's content, saying 'It's going to have some surprising twists and turns. It's somewhat of a valentine.'" -Drilnoth (talk) 23:36, 12 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I originally came looking to strike out my oppose. However, though I haven't had a chance to thoroughly review the article again, on a cursory glance at the beginning of the Production section:
    • "Enterprise writer Mike Sussman told TrekNation that Braga had considered the idea of an episode crossover featuring characters from other Star Trek series for some time." Date for when he told Treknation? What does "some time" mean?
    • "Suffice to say, my version wouldn't have worked for a series finale at all," Intriguing quotation, but leaves me wondering "why?".
    • "Berman stated the episode..." Missing word and time. Jarring sentence; there was a narrative flow up until here. Next two sentences suddenly switch gears again mid-paragraph.
    • "whom Coto had wanted to a permanent addition" Something went wrong here.
  • This was just skimming the first two paragraphs. Switched to leaning oppose. BuddingJournalist 16:28, 15 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • I've moved around some of the content and made the fixes; I didn't add a time for Berman's comments as it seemed to be somewhat chunky thrown in. --Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs (talk) 17:48, 15 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support - I am impressed with the quality of the prose, (apart from "A series-ending wrap party"), and the obvious enthusiasm for the subject that renders the whole article engaging. Clearly, a very well-researched contribution which I am pleased to support. Graham Colm Talk 19:36, 15 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support - being married for 20 year to a die hard Star Trek fan, I appreciate anything Star Trek, including Next Generation. Let me know when the Star Trek Wikipedia article comes up for peer review or FAC again. NancyHeise talk 18:06, 16 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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