Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Shoom/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 31 May 2021 [1].

Shoom[edit]

Nominator(s): Ceoil (talk) 23:56, 27 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Seminal late 1980s Acid House nightclub in London that almost single-handedly introduced Chicago house and Detroit techno music to the UK mainstream, creating an explosion of interest in electronic music and repetitive beats that culminated in the Second Summer of Love and still reverberates in contemporary European dance music culture. Ceoil (talk) 23:56, 27 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

Support: I have issued, now resolved, comments on the talk page. I'm satisfied that this article is comprehensive, well-written and well-sourced—although a separate source review is still absolutely necessary. DMT biscuit (talk) 07:58, 2 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for support, talk page suggestions, and copy edits. Ceoil (talk) 17:14, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support by Shoot for the Stars[edit]

I'll be leaving some comments in a few hours after I get some sleep -_-. ShootForTheStars (talk) 08:42, 16 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Ultimate Boss has said on my talk that unfortunately they will be taking an extended break from wiki matters (never a bad idea, esp with exams and that), so in other words, not at this time. Ceoil (talk) 21:32, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
(This is TUB. I changed my name to something for meaningful.) The article looks amazing so I support! Shoot for the Stars 💫 (talk) 06:11, 17 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator comment[edit]

  • Three weeks in and only one general support. Just a heads up that if there is not a fair bit of further activity over the next three or four days I am afraid that this nomination is liable to be archived Gog the Mild (talk) 15:40, 18 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    User:Gog the Mild, as an update, Sandy has expressed further concerns re grammar and prose, but before issues below by TRM were addressed, while another top to bottom rewrite is underway. Apologies that this is happening so late, but a much better article is developing. Ceoil (talk) 21:37, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Ceoil. I confess that some of this has me wondering if the article was actually ready for FAC when it was nominated, but as you seem to have addressed TRM's concerns - although we have yet to see how they view your changes and responses - it seems that this may be getting close to consensus to promote. Can I enquire as to what progress has been made to date in addressing Sandy's concerns? Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 15:17, 8 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that, in the cold light of day, that it was nominated too early...so my bad and learnings, genuinely. However Sandy has put quite "a lot" of effort into detailing specific and general areas for improvement, which were mostly addressed, and now we are down to tense, capitalisation and things like that. TRM has been sterling here, and most of his points were of the clearly actionable (change this to that) type, so I considered them resolved. He reviwed about half the article, but on the back of his points have audited the rest. I realise I'm pushing my luck here, but if its ok, can we let TRM finish up (in a few days), and then I would be happy to ask Sandy to sign off if she sees improvement.. All this brings us to next Thursday, as I have a beast of a week ahead from tomorrow. Ceoil (talk) 15:29, 8 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I have been crazy busy IRL but am now done with project and can revisit whenever Ceoil is ready. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:45, 8 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Pinging SandyGeorgia, as The Rambling Man has now completed a thorough and detailed review during which no punches were pulled ;) Ceoil (talk) 20:30, 14 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the ping, Ceoil; I have been extremely busy IRL, but am putting this on my list to complete ASAP; hard to know where to begin catching up, but I will get here soon. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:16, 15 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
There is absolutely no rush here. Ceoil (talk) 21:23, 15 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

SandyGeorgia[edit]

Commenting at Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates/Shoom/archive1#SandyGeorgia. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:45, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sandy, will be giving you the go ahead to revisit probably early next week. Ceoil (talk) 21:54, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Gog the Mild I will revisit today or tomorrow ...have been busy in the garden. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 13:20, 3 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates/Shoom/archive1#Revisit SG, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:49, 4 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

As relatively little was commonly known about ecstasy, a common misconception was that it was legal, when it was legally classified as Class A under the UK Misuse of Drugs Act.

  • This is the first sentence I happened upon on my revisit. There are three instances of a need to vary wording in one sentence (common common, legal legally, classified class). Then the year 1987 is referenced twice in that same para. I am not sure what the first "commonly" refers to (as opposed to medically maybe?), I am not sure why the second legally is needed, and it seems that the class classified issue could be resolved better. Could the whole sentence be fixed with something like ...
    • Although it was listed as Class A (deemed the most dangerous) under the UK Misuse of Drugs Act, a common misconception about little-known ecstacy at the time was that it was legal.

... the music worked so well with the drug because the warm and empathetic high from E's aligned with the both small, intimate size of the early London clubs, and the shared excitement of discovering a new and revolutionary form of electronic music.

  • I don't know what the "both" refers to, and don't know if the baker's apostrophe on the E's ...

SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:49, 16 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Realistically, should I expect any further comments or changes before I talk a walk through the article myself with a view to closing? Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 12:19, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Ian, I’ll be looking again in a few hours. Ceoil (talk) 13:50, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Have done some further editing, and trimmed out repetitive things. Ceoil (talk) 20:31, 23 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Sandy, any update? Or should we go ahead and review with an eye to closing? Gog the Mild (talk) 10:17, 26 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's time to put this one to bed, any further tweaks can take place post-FAC. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 13:18, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Andrzejbanas[edit]

Support. Everything seems to be in order. I have no problem supporting this for a FA. Andrzejbanas (talk) 07:39, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. Appreciate this considering all you have done here on electronic music...the article was started after admiring your work on "Acid Trax" last year. Ceoil (talk) 08:47, 25 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support from TRM[edit]

Lead

  • "sucessive nightclubs" first it's a typo but secondly I don't get it, do you just mean different?
  • Was it a one night per week kind of event?
  • Yes said later, but will clarify also in lead. Ceoil (talk) 18:28, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "between September 1987 and 1990" this is an odd span, is it September 1990 too?
  • Unfortunatly, after much searching, have not been able to find out when in 1990 it closed. Ceoil (talk) 18:28, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Now reclarified as "early 1990", but thats all I have. Ceoil (talk) 18:48, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • One ref in the lead always seems very odd to me. That material should be in the main part of the article and indeed expanded upon and referenced there.
  • Surprised that Raw isn't notable enough for an article.
  • It is, and have red linked for now. Shoom was only created Nov 2020, and intend to also create something for The Trip and Spectrum shortly. Ceoil (talk) 18:34, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • What is "door policy"?
  • Clarified as "entrance policy" Ceoil (talk) 19:48, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "media "black-out" approach - isn't blackout just a standard English word?
  • "also taking" personally.
  • "viewing the club" as this was held at three clubs, shouldn't this be "event"?
  • Why is "Rave" capitalised?

Formation

  • "The much larger Amnesia nightclub..." largre than what?
  • Larger than Shoom. But fixed. Ceoil (talk) 18:26, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "DJ's" no need for apostrophe, consistency within the article seems to favour "DJs".
  • "at Alfredo Fiorito's open-air" open-air what?
  • "on return" their return.
  • I'm always amazed by the number of times I see a single subsection used, e.g. we have 1 Formation and 1.1 Early nights but no 1.2.... Would early nights not just stand in its own level 2 heading?
  • Merged...formation and early nights coving similar period/ground. Ceoil (talk) 19:55, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The club opened..." Reinforce "Shoom" here as it's been a while since we mentioned it.
  • "5 am" should use a non-breaking space per MOS.
  • "he did not view it as successful" which he? Several individuals have been mentioned preceding this.
  • "played. [1][15][16] By" no space before refs.
  • "and House music" why suddenly capitalise house?
  • "where is was cool to be seen" it was and this isn't encyclopedic in tone, is it a quote? Wikipedia doesn't tell people where it was cool to be seen.
  • "UK acid House" that capital H again. I don't really favour one way or the other but you need to be consistent.
  • "the queue grew" the queue to enter the club.
  • "to Thursday nights " you said the previous location opening night was Saturday, were subsequent nights Saturdays?
  • It was Saturdays until the first venue change. Then went to Thursdays at would attract less punters. Ceoil (talk) 18:48, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think "scenesters" is (a) not a real word and (b) if it is, it's informal and not encyclopedic in tone.
  • "so tried to minimise attention from the music and general press. So as to avoid mainstream notice" these are kind of saying the same thing...
  • (There's a "Jenny" later on which I guess should be Jenni?)
  • "showed up" a shade informal.

That's a start, more to come. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 08:34, 4 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thanks TRM for the look and observations. Working through. Ceoil (talk) 18:28, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I believe all done to here. Again, going to this level of detail is very much appreciated. Ceoil (talk) 21:07, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sound. No rush - I'll go over again based to the type of thing raised above, so hopefully your list for the 2nd half wont be so long. Prob wont edit between Sunday and Thursday pm, so no pressure. Ceoil (talk) 21:44, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Club

  • "a imported" an
  • "mostly black" isn't it "Black"?
  • "Jungle nights, where house was played" was that also jungle music?
  • "compare it to the Muzic Box club made famous by Ron Hardy" with a red linked club and an unlinked "Ron Hardy", this comparison falls somewhat flat for our readers.
  • "Californian Summer of Love" vs "the summer of Love" capitalisation inconsistency.
  • "1988 was based on" this is a weird way of putting it. Don't repeat "scene" but something like "the 1988 scene" would be preferable.
  • "a handful published" of
  • "contemporarily" do you mean contemporaneous?
  • "acid-house music" why hyphenate here?
  • "popularise Humanoid 1998 crossover" either "the Humanoid" or "Humanoid's".
  • "The Rampling's early" shouldn't that be "The Ramplings's early"?
  • "early adaption" I guess you mean adoption?
  • "than a few feet" these could easily mean feet rather than feet....
  • "unable to see" then "unable to see" in the following sentence is repetitive.
  • Could link dungaree?
  • "well established figures" hyphenate well-established
  • "towards scasual, functional" is that odd word and piping deliberate?
  • "Until the summer of 1987, ecstasy..." giant sentence with one or two too many run-ons.
  • "ecstasy was a legal but obscure" vs "a common misconception was that it was legal" seem to contradict one another.
  • "Until the summer of 1987..." while this para is useful, it doesn't bring in any mention at all of Shoom.
  • "and the energy soda" I think if we're sticking with BritEng we should call this an energy drink, not a soda.
  • "also reduced drug's impact, so" the drug's?
  • "asking for life advice to people" "asking to give" or "advice from"...
  • "newsletters.[67][2] " order.
  • "The early Shoom clubber..." starts two consecutive sentences, mix it up a bit.
  • "This similarity lead many" led
  • "no nonsense personality" hyphenate no-nonsense in this adjectival usage.
  • "off ...I admire her...its" needs MOS:ELLIPSIS attention.

More to come. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 10:45, 9 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. All done except that have retained the "Until the summer of 1987" para...shows the roots of the sub-culture that Shoom popularised in the UK, and also how the early adoptees later became Shoom patrons...are each mentioned later in the article. Ceoil (talk) 00:33, 14 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The rest

  • "dungaree" is linked to a dab page.
  • "become embroiled in criminal charges" does one become embroiled in or subject to criminal charges?
  • "and undertook a successful career as a" -> "and became a successful"?
  • "He said that by 1990 dance " -> "He said that, by 1990, dance "
  • "1990s rave scene" you linked rave in the previous section to something different.
  • "the Balearic sound" you say this like it's a "thing", is there a link?
  • "before the larger-scale, often illegal..." no need for "the".
  • "the Balearic had" should "sound" be in there?
  • "members Bernard Sumner and" you didn't repeat Faver's first name but you do Sumner... Be consistent.
  • "Weatherall produced" hyphenate.
  • "and to me it wa s... the ... dream"" typo and MOS:ELLIPSIS here (non-breaking spaces in all the right places).
  • crossover or cross-over?
  • "by Billboard Magazine in their" magazine isn't part of the title, it's just Billboard so perhaps Billboard magazine.
  • "in the US..[1]" double full stop.
  • "well established" hyphen.
  • "Rampling disputes this and said ..." needs ref.
  • "time E became" ecstasy.
  • "which in section 63(1)(b) outlawed" -> "in which section 63(1)(b) outlawed"
  • Be consistent with linking works/publishers in the refs e.g. why not link The Guardian?

That's probably it for the first reading! The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 10:06, 14 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Great. All done....Ceoil (talk) 18:18, 14 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Lots of work has gone into this, and I feel it's been much improved since my first read, so I'm happy to support now. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 08:42, 15 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I really appreciate all the time you put into this. Ceoil (talk) 11:16, 15 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Source review – Pass[edit]

Will do soon. Aza24 (talk) 05:30, 25 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Formatting
  • Link National Institute on Drug Abuse in ref 2
  • Ref 68 seems to be in a different template
  • The Guardian should be italicized in Snaped
  • Are we sure "Positive Energy of Madness" is the publisher for Sedazzari?
  • You have "Shoom.london" here but have it lowercased in Notes; either is fine, of course, just needs to be one or the other
  • Should be The New York Times I believe
  • A minor quibble, a bit confused on your linking of publishers/works. I was guessing you're linking non-book sources in their first mention, but i-D is linked twice, as is mixmag.
Reliability
  • Looks good from what I can see
Verifiability
  • Page number for ref 79 (Hook 2009)?
  • page number for ref 18 (BrewsterBroughton 2014)?
Thanks v much Aza. All sorted, except the NYT is often here minus the "the", and I bought both Hook and Brewster & Broughton as an e-book; hence no page number. Not sure how linking to a kindle "area" works, though the format makes it none the less valid. ps Sedazzar now removed. Anyways, thanks again. Ceoil (talk) 08:38, 25 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Ceoil on specifying a section where you have no page number, see dementia with Lewy bodies#References and use of | loc = SandyGeorgia (Talk) 11:57, 25 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Also this is a change in citation style that is not required (and has introduced harv ref errors). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 12:04, 25 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
ok, this has been fixed again. Ceoil (talk) 11:10, 26 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hey Ceoil, we're still missing a page number for Hook 2009 and BrewsterBroughton 2014 (now refs 17 and 78)—a chapter would do too, I would think Aza24 (talk) 04:55, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Sorted Aza in case you missed the above. Adding chapter nrs/sections for e-books is a new one for me...thanks for tips; Co-vid and its many weird impacts on ordinary life eh. Ceoil (talk) 21:57, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oops yes I don't know how I missed you comment now—but yeah, tis odd how Covid manages to sneak its way into everything—looks good now, pass for source review. Aza24 (talk) 05:25, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support by Cas Liber[edit]

Looking now...tweaking as I go.....queries below....Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:51, 28 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • At the end of the first para you have In the club's first months, Danny and Jenni Rampling would greet each patron as they arrived, and say goodnight to them as they left., which has been mentioned in the preceding section - should be merged and placed in one spot or the other. Actually I'd probably move para 2 of Formation onto para 1 of early nights TBH.
  • Does Rampling or anyone else recall how many turned up on the first night?
  • Within months of opening, the queue grew from a few hundred into over a thousand, leading to a move in March 1988 to Thursday nights at Raw - should this be "attendance"?
  • Thinking about this. The thing is that only around third of them would have gotten in. Ceoil (talk) 20:55, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • That is a valid point....I should have remembered that from queuing all those years ago...Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:11, 30 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The club's popularity began when it was praised... - I'd probably say, "The club's popularity grew after it was praised..." (more natural and chronological)
Done Ceoil (talk) 09:09, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Shoom's interior design tended towards minimalism architecture, mirrored walls and smiley face logos - "minimalist"?
Done Ceoil (talk) 09:09, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I guess...what happened to the Ramplings afterwards...how did it change their lives?
    Good point - will add. Ceoil (talk) 09:09, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Looks okay otherwise. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:13, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I know that he became a rather boring internationally renowned mainstream DJ, while she went into private industry and became very successful as a formidable character. Hang on; searching through the sources to find about her. Ceoil (talk) 02:30, 30 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Ceoil (talk) 21:40, 1 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for this and for the edits Ceoil (talk) 09:09, 29 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I guess you've found everything that could be found. A nice read :) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:07, 1 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Cas for all the direct and suggested improvements. Re queuing not knowing if you would get in...remember it all to well. The trick was to look them in the eye and show no fear, which worked around..."some" of the time :) Ceoil (talk) 23:38, 1 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

HF[edit]

Will take a look at this soon. As a country person who's never ingested anything worse than caffeine and some accidental pesticide exposure a couple years ago, I expect to be completely unfamiliar with a lot of this topic matter. Hog Farm Talk 22:39, 16 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • " But this time, electronic music had crossed into the mainstream as the heavier sounding rave style became popular, leaving Shoom to seem outdated" - It's unclear to me why this sentence starts with "but". It seems to me that "by" would be a better first word.
  • "Chicago DJ Bam Bam played at Shoom in 1988, and was impressed enough to compare it to the Muzic Box club made famous by Hardy" - Who is Hardy?
  • " Pernod water and the energy drink Lucozade" - Is Pernod a brand name or a special variant with some sort of additive? It's unclear, especially since the company described at Pernod Ricard (where Pernod redirects) appears to primarily produce alcohol
  • "Boy George believes that use of ecstasy had a profound effect of many people" - I suspect you want "on", not "of"
  • I have very strong suspicisions that both of the external links to Youtube fail WP:COPYLINK; they should probably be removed and only seem marginally relevant, anyway.
  • Is it really necessary to have in both the categories for Nightclubs in London and Nightclubs in England, since the former is a subcat of the latter?

This should be it for my review; anticipate supporting. Hog Farm Talk 01:46, 17 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for edits and review. Have resolved those now. Ceoil (talk) 16:29, 17 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support on WP:FACR #1a, 1d, 1e, 2a, 2b, 2c, and 4; not familiar enough with the subject matter to assess other criteria. Hog Farm Talk 03:16, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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