Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/New York State Route 373

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by User:SandyGeorgia 20:31, 31 August 2008 [1].

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New York State Route 373

Nominator(s): Shoemaker's Holiday, Mitch32, Juliancolton

While the road is quite short (just over three miles), I think this is a detailed and comprehensive article on the road. The sourcing is strong, the text well-written, and, though the road's short length limits the length of the article, there is nowhere it could be merged. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 19:55, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

• Note: Drive-by nomination. Per FAC instructions, have you contacted the article's contributors (Mitchazenia and Juliancolton) whether they believe the article is ready for FAC? Nishkid64 _{(Make articles, not wikidrama)} 21:41, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
  • This is no drive by - I have a FAC and I asked if he could do it - there is no problem here - he is also interested in helping out with any changes.Mitch32^(UP) 21:45, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
    • I wouldn't say you asked me, so much as mentioned the problem when we were talking. Wikiporoject New York Roads doesn excellent work, so when I heard there was an article ready, but unable to be nominated, I jumped at the chance. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 21:51, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
      • Alright, thanks for the explanation. I didn't see any recent communication between you two, so I assumed it was a drive-by nomination. Nishkid64 _{(Make articles, not wikidrama)} 21:55, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Comment Most of the paragraphs start with "NY 373" in the Route Description and History sections. It wouldn't make logical sense to start every paragraph with the same word now, is it? --Splat5572 (talk) 06:42, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Fixed, I think? Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 12:39, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Comments - sources look good (as usual) links checked out with the link checker tool (It's saying one is a pdf and needs to be marked as such, but the footnote correctly lists it as a pdf, so it's good.) Ealdgyth - Talk 12:59, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Comments on images

• Image:New York Route 373 map.png - The map description needs to indicate from whence cometh its information - what source did the mapmaker use to make the map? Also, ideally all maps should be in SVG format. Awadewit (talk) 15:29, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
  • Unfortunately, while Quantum GIS (the mapmaking software most of us use) has a SVG export option, the files it puts out are rendered into billions of tiny squares, which makes editing and uploading them impractical and would probably cause undue stress on the server which attempts to render them into SVG. (Try downloading and editing Image:Ok-325 path.svg in Inkscape to see what I mean.) —Scott5114↗ [EXACT CHANGE ONLY] 11:10, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
    • Image concerns have been addressed (svg will have to be worked out on a project level, I think). Awadewit (talk) 22:14, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

(1) The prose needs work; (2) MoS breaches; (3) not comprehensive, I feel.

I've copy-edited the lead to show how the whole text might be brought up to a more professional standard. I managed to remove quite a words and streamline the wording in a few places; the shortened form needed exposure at the start; please check through it now. Please read MoS on spaced en dashes; I've corrected one. Hard-spaces are preferred by MoS in "Route 373" and the like, although is probably unnecessary in the five-word full version (see what you think). Is it really necessary to bold the Turnpike title as well? It seem to mess with the bold in the adjacent infobox and generally with the appearance of the text.

I'm very disappointed to see how short the article is; I don't believe there are not troves of more information relevant to an article that "is among our best work" in the literature, and in documentation that wouldn't represent OR. I've made the point before that establishing contacts with personnel in the relevant authorities, even contractors, could provide access to valuable and interesting information about planning and construction. Aren't there local-government records or oral history accounts from the areas served by the road that would enrich the article? How did the road change the local economies and lifestyles? Nominations should be setting the standards for all US road articles ... I'll be interested to see how this article expands and improves. Tony (talk) 08:17, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

I'll try to go and brush up the prose a bit, per your suggestion. About the comprehensiveness of the article, I fully and honestly believe there is no more encyclopedic information about this road. At just over 3 miles, I suspect most people don't even realize it's a state route, let alone have been affected by it. Nevertheless, I'll keep an open mind and scour the internet for a while to see what I can find. –Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 13:07, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

You might try histories of the hamlet itself for more information. When and why was that place settled and how did people get there before the road was built? How was the hamlet affected once a land route became available? --Polaron | Talk 14:00, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

• Could a better description of NY 912T's course be included? The lead states that 373 starts at US 9, but in the same breath that 912T " connects it with US 9"... That's awfully confusing. Circeus (talk) 14:19, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
  • Will be reworded, but here is the case. There are two enterances to NY 373 from US 9. The northern one is NY 373 itself, while the southern one is NY 912T, a lame reference route. That is how NYSDOT did it.Mitch32^(UP) 14:38, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
    • Then what that means is that NY 912T is the southbound access from US 9, right? Circeus (talk) 17:23, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
      • Yes, that is correct.Mitch32^(UP) 17:24, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
        • So where is the problem i explaining that in the article? ;-) Circeus (talk) 19:24, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Neutral I withdraw my opposition, but cannot support such a short article for FA status. I feel the article is not comprehensive, but I live in the UK and cannot judge this objectively. Graham Colm ^Talk 19:32, 25 August 2008 (UTC) Oppose, I have made some edits and would have made more if I had understood what was being said. Here are the sentences I failed to understand:

• Located entirely within Adirondack State Park, the route intersects with New York State Route 912T just after the terminus. - The terminus of what?
  • Done - Mitch32^(UP) 16:24, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
• The turnpike, which helped by making a diversion from the so called "Far West" (near Watertown) all the way to Plattburgh, which was at the time, not as large of a commercial industry at the time. - Helped what? and why two occurrences of at the time?
  • Done - Mitch32^(UP) 16:24, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
• The Port Kent – Hopkinton Turnpike began to settle, but improvements on the turnpike were limited and mainly scattered. - What does began to settle mean? And what is a scattered improvement?
  • Done - Mitch32^(UP) 16:24, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
• The ferry's entire length was the transition of the highway's portion in New York and into the Vermont portion. - What does transition mean in this context?
  • Done - Mitch32^(UP) 16:24, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
• Route 373 was assigned to its current routing by 1936 of the turnpike from U.S. Route 9 to the access to the Burlington Ferry. - I'm lost after routing.
  • Done - Mitch32^(UP) 16:24, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
• However, the highway, in New York, for its entire length was maintained by State of New York. Instead, it was maintained by the town of Chesterfield. - This is baffling.
  • Done - Mitch32^(UP) 16:24, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

A short article about a non-technical subject that is this difficult to understand is not ready to be featured. Graham Colm ^Talk 15:38, 23 August 2008 (UTC) I have striked some comments, but the article still needs a thorough copy-edit. Graham Colm ^Talk 18:56, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

I've done a full copy-edit. I hope that helps. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 18:16, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

There is a problem in the Lead wrt non-breaking space and bold text.Graham Colm ^Talk 19:14, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

I fixed this, I think. Graham Colm ^Talk 19:32, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

• Support - Great article. Very good description of the route. ~~ ĈőмρǖтέŗĠύʎ890100 (t ↔ Ĕ ↔ ώ) ^{Review me!} 03:32, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

• Support Very well written for such a short route. References check out. Good job --Admrb♉ltz (t • c • log) 16:37, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

• Comment, this is a very difficult article to assess, currently. I see several attempts at copyedits, not all of them complementing each other. For example, this series of edits introduced grammatical errors and degraded the quality of the lead. These edits were done under the guise of copyediting but, in my opinion, made the lead unacceptable. I'm not quite sure what to make of it. --Laser brain (talk) 05:35, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

• Support at this time. I made a few other tweaks but it seems up to standard. It's short but I can't actually prove it's not comprehensive—I spent 15 minutes searching in academic databases and didn't find any other information. One request, if possible: Can we get who lodged the protests in this statement: "The logging was a substantial part of New York's economy, but protests were lodged against the clearing of entire mountains and wilderness areas of trees."? --Laser brain (talk) 05:20, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Will "by the New York Times and others" do? It's a fairly diffuse movement, and this article isn't really the place to go into extreme detail about the park. Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 11:50, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.