Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Martin Brodeur

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted 21:24, 28 April 2007.

Martin Brodeur[edit]

This article should've been nominated a while ago, I was just lazy. It has a lot of references and some really good content. If you're comparing it to the likes of Wayne Gretzky, I think it should be FA-status.

  • Support Per nom. Sportskido8 16:06, 2 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. A few comments:
    • This sentence doesn't seem to flow too well:

In his 13-year tenure, he has led the team to three Stanley Cup championships and has taken them to the playoffs all but once since his NHL goaltending career has begun.

Surely 'since his NHL goaltending career has begun' is redundant, due to 'In his 13-year tenure'.
  • Is it worth mentioning Brodeur's father in the lead? After all, the lead is supposed to sum up the article, and I don't see any mention of him later down in the article.
  • Where's the information on Brodeur's early life?
  • I'd recommend an infobox header, and a more detailed caption for the infobox image. Most readers won't have a clue when this picture was taken.
Just a few comments to keep you busy! I'll add more comments later. CloudNine 16:37, 2 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Ok. I fixed the first sentence. I could take his father out of the lead but family lineage is usually considered important so that's why I put it there. I do not believe, however, that an infobox image needs to be captioned. If viewers want more information from it, they can click on it. The early life should probably have a section I guess. Sportskido8 20:23, 2 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
With the image infobox caption, what happens if I want (or a reader wants) to print out the article and read it? Object per criterion 3. Infobox image needs a caption. CloudNine 10:14, 4 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That's not an objectionable objection infobox pics do not require captions, criteria 3 is meant to refer to in-text pics. See FA's such as Michael Jordan, Sandy Koufax, Wayne Gretzky, Tony Blair, Muhammad Ali Jinnah, Damon Hill, Paul Collingwood, Adam Gilchrist, Ina Garten, etc. I'm going to assume good faith and assume you didn't know that. Quadzilla99 19:27, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. I have done some work on the article, though not nearly as much as Sportskido. I think it is well-rounded, sufficiently referenced, and a good example of a hockey FA. Anthony Hit me up... 12:25, 4 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I tried to add a caption but I could not find a way to add a caption in the infobox. I would consider this unactionable. Michael Greiner 01:22, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Conditional Support. As a huge Devils fan, I'm very happy that our guys appear to be the only ones doing anything FA-worthy. I like this article, but it could use some tweaking. I know it's a general statement, but the article could use some POV copyediting and some more referencing. I wish I could do more for you guys, but I'm really, really, really swamped with work. Here are a few examples:
    • "He finished 2nd in goals-against-average and 4th in save-percentage during the regular-season, which was surprising for a rookie goaltender. He was not originally chosen as the starting goalie, but he played so well when called upon that he overtook Chris Terreri as the Devils' #1 goalie." Is GAA really written like that? I can see the first hypen, but the second one doesn't seem to make much sense to me. I don't think regular season should have a hyphen and I'm going back and forth on save percentage, but I think it should either. I don't like the "which was surprising for a rookie goaltender." I know it was (he was/is awesome!), but unless you can source that claim, it might be better left out. "He played so well" screams POV to me and the second part of the sentence is a bit awkward. I would rephrase it as, "When the season began, he was the backup goalie, but due to his performance, head coach Jacques Lemaire awarded Brodeur the starting job." Others are free to tweak it a bunch. This sentence also could use a source.
    • Damn it, I really wish I had time to do more. Another few suggestions: don't excessively wikilink. Do something about that hanging sentence at the end of the lead. Get someone with no idea what hockey is to do one more copyedit. For instance, you might find out that you need to wikilink things like goals against average, which according to our page has no hyphens, as I thought. Try to shape it up some and I'll reconsider my conditional. JHMM13 22:42, 4 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I fixed a couple of your concerns. These are some minor things that I overlooked when I wrote the entire structure of the article over back in the day. But rest assured, they will be cleaned. Sportskido8 01:38, 5 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Support But I think the second paragraph in the Personal Life section could use a source. Also, I noticed goals against average written with no hypens, hypens, or just GAA. So choose one and make it consistent. Finally, since this is a Canadian player, we should use Canadian spelling, so I'm gonna go through and see if there is any 'U-less' words; I already spotted one earlier. Nathanalex 21:55, 5 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support I was very impressed when I first came across this article a couple months ago and it has only gotten better since then. I've made some minor changes on it (mostly making sentences clearer if they could be and editing stats and such) and would love to see it be featured. It covers a lot of bases and is very well-written. Bsroiaadn 05:01, 6 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Support I found and uploaded a couple nice pics for this article from flickr (they're in the commons box and the one where he gets ready for action) so I'd like to see it do well, but there is no mention of his early life, it's as though he appeared on the earth as a goaltender. That's a glaring omission. Quadzilla99 09:36, 6 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • There are other prose related issues but I'm not going to list to take the time ot list them if the article has no early life section. Quadzilla99 09:40, 6 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      • I'll put an early life section in later today. I just wish somebody had mentioned this at some point in the past year so that I didn't have to do it while it's up for an FA-nomination. Sportskido8 19:33, 6 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
        • Nice work on that, I've got a couple of other issues I'll list them here and you can deal with them one by one. Feel free to strike a line through each one as you get to them:
          • This direct quote is without a source:"Brodeur is arguably the top goaltender in the world right now. Fresh off a World Cup win in 2004, and another strong performance at the 2005 IIHF World hockey championships. Also, he's still among the best puck-handling goaltenders in the game, though the NHL's new rule changes may somewhat alter that effectiveness." All quotes should have a source.
          • Sometimes when you use the cquote template you put the citation after the quote and sometimes after the colon preceding it, just put in on the colon each time to make it consistent.
          • "He then "backstopped" Team Canada", backstopped is sports lingo that probably needs to go.
          • " According to Brodeur's book, Patrick Roy, the team's starter, demanded to play every game, and he has never forgiven Roy for doing so." This sentence could use a citation, along with a page number. Also kinda choppy and poorly worded.
          • "He was also a first Team All-Star, a starter in the NHL All-Star Game, and a finalist for the Hart Trophy yet again." Yet is slightly POV just make it again.
          • "His name was used by the Loisirs' directors to create a golf tournament named after him." Name is stated twice redundant. How about "a golf tournament was created in his name" something of that sort.
          • "Entitled Brodeur: Beyond the Crease, it hit the market in October 2006." "hit the market" is not very formal could be released, or some other term.
          • Talking about things he's on pace to do in the lead, might be a little WP:CRYSTALish, but I guess it's okay.
          • "Brodeur was drafted in the first round, 20th overall, from Saint-Hyacinthe, in the 1990 NHL Entry Draft by the New Jersey Devils,[14] for whom he has played since the 1991-1992 season." The "for whom he has played" makes the sentence choppy also is probably unnecessary as you're going to make it clear he's played for them all of his career as the article goes on.
          • "The next season, which was shortened to forty-eight games due to a four month lockout that plagued the NHL with salary cap issues, the Devils finished tied for 9th overall, 5th in their conference, and were not considered a Stanley Cup contender." I'm not the biggest hockey fan, but wasn't the strike due to the owners trying to implement a salary cap? This sentence needs re-wording, it's unclear what the strike was actually about reading it.
            • That's all I see for now, I'll look again later. Quadzilla99 18:55, 7 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
              • Fixed 'em all. Sportskido8 19:36, 7 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
                • Great work! Although I unstruck the pace thing as that wasn't addressed—but as I said that might not be too big of a deal, it is verifiable. Here's a couple more:
                  • "However, in 1994 Brodeur achieved notoriety when he won the Calder Trophy, an annual award for the best rookie in the NHL, after leading the Devils to 2nd place in the NHL and the 3rd round of the playoffs, where they eventually lost to the New York Rangers in seven games.[16]" Why did he achieve "notoriety"? Shouldn't it be publicity or even better recognition? Am I missing something?
                  • "His netminding career" same deal as backstopping, sport lingo not formal enough.
                  • It's also going to need WP:DASH work throughout, see the two edits I made, those dashes appear in the box down below when you edit. The only things that shouldn't be changed to the current format are the titles of articles as they use a standard keyboard dash. I've asked another use to look the article over and she knows a lot about the policy. So (if she has time) perhaps she can elaborate better than I can. Quadzilla99 19:56, 7 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
                    • Fixed the first two things. I will have to read up on this dash stuff though. Sportskido8 20:05, 7 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
                      • One or two more things, the refs aren't formatted correctly. There are several repeated refs such as this one:[1] If you put the ref in like this <ref name="Bio">normal ref info here.</ref> then each time you repeat the ref you just put in <ref name="Bio"/> the refs won't repeat. Quadzilla99 20:24, 7 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
                        • I think I fixed all of them. Sportskido8 20:32, 7 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
                          • Great! I struck that. The refs are also going to need author info, any time an author is named in article their name should appear in the ref, also if a report is an Associated Press, Reuters, or Canadian Press wire report that should be noted as well. Additionally I'm not too familiar with templates (I do refs manually) but I think some should be cite news that are cite web. Any thing like an online reprint of a newspaper article I think uses cite news. Quadzilla99 20:38, 7 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
                            • Also like I pointed out in one of my edit summaries (see the edit summary in the article history for more detail) 1st should be first, 2nd should be second, etc. Quadzilla99 20:44, 7 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

(reset margin) I can help today. That will probably be my last objection. Quadzilla99 05:42, 8 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I fixed all of my objections and changed to support. All of the info in the refs is now there (Pub date, auhtor etc.), although some might not be right template the info is there which is enough for me. The dashes are done to the best of my understanding (if the editor I referred to looks it over she'll know for certain). Here's one or two more things that could use tweaking:
    • "and had a playoff total of 7 overall, breaking Dominik Hašek's not-so-old NHL record of 6" not-so-old is clunky, I would have fixed it myself but I couldn't think of another wording.
      • Fixed this myself, removed the reference to how recent the record was set. If you want to re-insert it you could say "recently set NHL record" but I think it's smoother without any of that. Quadzilla99 08:18, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • "With one of the most impressive playoff performances of his career, Brodeur guided the Devils to their third Stanley Cup victory after dramatic seven-game series wins against the top-seeded Ottawa Senators and the surprising 7th-seeded Anaheim Mighty Ducks." This might be considered a little POV (not by me but others, as I've learned in the past) replace "most impressive" with "standout" or memorable. Or just say it without using an adjective. Acclaimed (with a ref) would be great.
    • I removed one or two lingoistic phrases, "He notched his 85th career shutout" try to make these are all out and formal terms used in their place.
    • As I commented on the talk page previously, since his name is pronounced "Mar-tan Bro-door" maybe you could add a pronunciation breakdown to the opening sentence.
      • Another editor fixed this according to policy, although I don't know how many people can read IPA. Quadzilla99 18:11, 8 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Prose could still use slight polishing overall, you might want to look it over, but it's not enough for me to oppose.
Okay the article is very nice now and you should be proud of it. The reason all this stuff, which might seem minor, is important is first off that it's policy, but also if the article becomes an FA (which seems highly probable now) people will look to it as an example and therefore it should be formatted correctly so any mistakes aren't repeated. Quadzilla99 07:33, 8 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Website's sources - [6] Michael Greiner 17:17, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sorry, but these just don't appear to be reliable sources. Unless you can convince me why these are good, I'll need to strongly object. We can't have featured articles based on Joethe HockeyFanSaidSo.com SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:24, 8 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Umm, the 38 consecutive wins for a single team to start the season are an NHL record (He got 38 before Clemmensen got 1). I'll source it from somewhere else though, Nathan. Hockeygoalies.org is an extremely reliable source Sandy, read the "About the page" section and you'll see where the guy gets his references from. As for the other ones, maybe they don't have a big name like ESPN or Sporting News but they're entirely devoted to hockey. Couchpotato and hockeynut both reference things that I can find elsewhere so that's not a big issue. (And there are only a couple of sources with them anyway). And the career stats don't explicitly have a source because his player profile is referenced a few times and you can find them there easily. Sportskido8 19:36, 8 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Ping me when it's all sorted out so I can have another look. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 05:34, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I fixed two of those references. The HockeyNut ones are still there but I don't necessarily think that's a bad source. Sportskido8 17:16, 13 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry... I guess I misunderstood what it meant. I thought you were implying he won 38 games in a row, but I think you mean that he won 38 games for his team without another goalie getting any wins in between... That could be reworded somehow to make it more clear. Nathanalex 03:39, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Rewrote sentence as; "The Devils first 38 wins of the season were all with Brodeur in net, leading to a NHL record for most consecutive wins for a team." Michael Greiner 22:06, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as it has been rewritten and overhauled to pass FA standards. Kaiser matias 21:04, 8 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Object Brodeur is an athlete whose career essentially started along with the rise of the internet. Every important game should be cited with a box score and/or recap. This will be a lot of work. I will be doing this for the 2007 season for Barry Bonds as I have begun to do. If I were the lead editor of Bonds' page or wanted get it promoted to FA I would do so historically. I am going to try to do this with all athlete pages I get involved in. For example, when you say he broke Dominik Hasek's shutout record, you should have a box score citation for each shutout since there are only seven. Going forward I will be opposing athletes on this basis whenever I pass by FAC. You are not being singled out and I just started doing this myself when I nominated Chris Young (baseball pitcher) for GA. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 18:59, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This is getting ridiculous already. Are people TRYING to find ways to object to this article? One guy above objected it because the infobox didn't have a caption, and now you're objecting for a reason that I've never seen been given before. The Hasek reference comes from CNN SI, which is a perfectly reliable source. I'm sorry for taking my frustration out on you, but this article is very close to passing FA status and I can't understand your reasoning when all of the references are from well-known sources. Why does it matter if it's to a box score? Sportskido8 21:35, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I wouldn't worry Sportskido that doesn't seem actionable. Summaries of every single significant game (however that would be determined) of an accomplished player's career would seriously violate WP:Summary style. We're not writing a biography here, you still have my support as above. Quadzilla99 21:38, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Strongly agree with Sportskido, there doesn't seem to be much that could be added through box scores. Hockey is (obviously) a very different game from baseball, where box scores would be of more interest. It's very nice that Tony is going to oppose sports articles based on his own made-up criteria, but it doesn't seem to be an actual policy. Nathanalex 01:50, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I was thinking the same thing and given that people have complained that citation density can get out of hand on some of these FACs to source an article which says so and so his a game winning shot and then add a box score (which won't say that) is illogical. Citations aren't for further reading on a subject. Quadzilla99 02:09, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I am not trying to find a way to object. I just went through my first successful WP:FAC and WP:FLC processes last month (totalling over 800 edits). I found that although I did not like each thing people were adding. They almost all made my article better. Anyone who is a sports fan knows that quick access to a box score or game recap can improve the encyclopedic value of an article. Despite comments above, I see nothing at WP:Summary_style#Citations_and_external_links suggesting that there is any consensus that adding box score links would detract from the article. I tell you what. I will add your first box score as I think should be added and you tell me whether you think it adds to your article. Keep in mind that most knowledgeable hockey fans will wonder about things like how many saves and power play opportunities did a goalie have to defend. I know that you as the writer are a hockey fan and thus I know that you know those are the first two things you want to know about a shutout. I am not trying to be mean. Your article will be better. It is not just my baseball articles that are improved by box score citations. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 15:50, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I added two games (48th 2007 win, 7th 2003 post season shutout). I also noticed that for hockey ESPN.com only seems to go back to the 2002-3 season. I think USAToday.com goes back about 15 years, but I have not checked in a while. However, playing with the URL to get to their old pages is a challenge because I do not quite understand the syntax. If you want to find games you can find them though. Generally, I use sports.yahoo.com and espn.com. I haven't pushed myself to find older games from the 90s. Before the 90s you probably can't link to the net. I would not push for a print citation before about 92, but I think you can find box scores online going back that far. I would encourage you to find other important games. Clearly the last 5 seasons are on ESPN.com. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 16:33, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If you want to add box score sources that's fine, but I don't think there's a reason to object the article because of the fact that they're not there. You should base your decision on the current Wikipedia criteria, which seems like an easy support to me. Just my two cents...Sportskido8 18:27, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
WP:WIAFA 1(c) "Factually accurate" means that claims are verifiable against reliable sources and accurately represent the related body of published knowledge. Claims are attributable and supported with specific evidence and external citations; this involves the provision of a "References" section in which sources are set out, complemented by inline citations for quotations and for material that is challenged or likely to be challenged. (See citing sources for suggestions on formatting references; for articles with footnotes or endnotes, the meta:cite format is recommended.)" I am contesting under this. If you go to Kobe Bryant and look at the citation for the game where he had 81, a citation exists. If it Kobe were up for FA, I would say the citation does support the 81 claim, but it is a piss poor citation. Give me an AP box score and recap. Sure you can pass with any old citation for a claim. Here there is a chance to have good ones and I am encouraging that. I encourage a quality box score and recap for each important game (especially over the last 5 years). TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 20:07, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I just added an external link to Yahoo Sports which includes a game log dating back to 1999 which has box scores available. Michael Greiner 21:38, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If the statement in an article is that so and so made a game winning shot then a ref stating that is what is necessary, often times a box score will have no mention of who made a game-winning shot. Also we're employing summary style here, Wikipedia is not expected to carry recaps of every significatn game a player ever played. To oppose until your personal preferences are met is not what WP:FAC is about. Quadzilla99 03:07, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Michael Greiner, I am not sure what you are telling me you did. Is it in the article somewhere? Anyway, I have confirmed www.USATODay.com box scores back to 1995. Here is the 250th calendar day in 1995 (I think) URL= http://www.usatoday.com/sports/scores95/95250/95250.htm I am not asking him/her to add recaps. I am asking him to link to recaps/box scores where possible. I can only find box scores going back to 1995. I can not find recaps or game logs. I have not looked that hard yet. Do you want me to go through the article and enumerate every other game that I think needs a box score/recap. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 17:54, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I see what you did. I oppose a game log. It is to individual box scores as external links are to inline citations. Please seek important box scores for important games. They can be found. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 16:51, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
COmpletely wrong Tony the score of the game is there it's completely unnecessary to get an individual box score. Quadzilla99 17:20, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

(Unindent)Objection (cont'd) I continue to believe this article is undercited. It seems that a lot of what you are including comes from martinbrodeur.net. I am not sure of the propriety of such a resource. I understand hockey is harder to source than the other major sports. If some of the requests are difficult to find maybe I can help track some down. I would like an alternate source for as much of the following as possible:

  1. only goalie in NHL history with six 40-win seasons
  2. Brodeur was drafted in the first round, 20th overall, from Saint-Hyacinthe, in the 1990 NHL Entry Draft by the New Jersey Devils.
  3. He finished 2nd in goals against average and 4th in save percentage during the regular season, helping him eventually land the starting job over Terreri.
  4. The next season, which was shortened to forty-eight games due to a four month lockout that was focused on salary cap issues, the Devils finished tied for 9th overall, 5th in their conference, and were not considered a Stanley Cup contender. However, with the leadership of Brodeur, they defeated the Boston Bruins in the 1st round after shutting them out in three of their four wins. Brodeur had another stellar performance in the second round against Pittsburgh, where he gave up only eight goals and helped the Devils soundly defeat the Penguins in five games. In the third round the Devils defeated Philadelphia in six games, giving them their first Stanley Cup finals appearance in franchise history, opposite the heavily favoured Detroit Red Wings. But the strong play of Brodeur and the Devils' infamous "trap" method would make this series lopsided in favour of New Jersey, who would go on to sweep the Red Wings while holding them to only seven goals in four games.(each sentence)
  5. Brodeur played in 77 (of a possible 82) games, setting a single-season record for most minutes played by a goalie, while having the 2nd most shutouts in the league.
  6. In the first game of the series on April 17, 1997, with the Devils up by two goals late in the game, Brodeur fired the puck the length of the ice and into the Canadiens' empty net to ensure a 5–2 victory (box score if possible).
  7. Brodeur was runner-up for the Vezina, was named to his second all-star team, and had the lowest goals-against-average by a goalie in almost thirty years, earning him the Jennings Trophy. He also had 10 shutouts and a .927 save-percentage.
  8. In the 1998–99 season, the Devils finished first in the Eastern Conference for the third straight year, with Brodeur winning 39 games. He was among the contenders for the Vezina Trophy and started in the All-Star game, making his fourth appearance. However, Devils lost in the first round of the playoffs yet again, this time to the Pittsburgh Penguins.

(I am only half way through the article. I will get to the other half later today or tomorrow). — Preceding unsigned comment added by TonyTheTiger (talk • contribs) 17:28, 27 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Object. But this is dang close. I've added one cn tag. In the Early Life section, there are no indication of years/age of subject. Also, the copy reads awkwardly, claiming that his father was an important factor in his success, before backtracking and saying 'well, actually'... However, great job. Sports bios are tough to get through FA. Drop me a line when you've addressed those comments and I'll happily review. --Dweller 19:31, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the paragraph with the cn tag as I can not find any sources. I'm not sure what you mean by no years in the Early Life section as everything has the year it happened. (Having both the year and his age would be redundant) Also, I don't see where it says that his father didn't help his success. (unless you are counting the fact that he started as a forward) Michael Greiner 21:38, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support - conditional on addressing the new {{cn}} tag I've added. I still had a problem with the father-success issue, but I've fixed it myself. Feel free to amend if it's not right English for Canadian article, but you'll get the sense. One last thing - did the placard really read "Alimony demanded from your wife"? Surely it should have read "...by your wife"? --Dweller 18:56, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Added citation where cn tag was added. Michael Greiner 19:18, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. My support stands... interested however, in response re the placard. --Dweller 20:30, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Glad to have your support. As for the placard, the source says "from" so I guess we'll have to use that. Sportskido8 00:01, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I'm not really much of an ice hockey fan and I hate the NJD, but I found this a very enjoyable read. I'm pretty sure this would be the first ice hockey player article to earn Featured status. Buc 20:41, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Actually, Wayne Gretzky is an FA, and was even featured on the front page a while ago. The more you know. Kaiser matias 06:59, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Correct. This would be the first goaltender article featured, if it were to pass. Sportskido8 08:40, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, its a really good article, really heavily sourced, almost too much I would say but if that's what it takes these days. As hockey articles go this is definitely up there with the Gretzky article. Some of the objections raised in this article are just ridiculous, its not like we are showing these Featured Articles to our cruel dictator and have to have it 110% perfect. With all this over-editing, it does nothing to prevent in later days afterwards for other editors to come along and diminish the article's quality, as is the case with all FACS. Once again, good job Sportskido8, your doing a really good job with these Jersey-related articles. Croat Canuck Go Leafs Go 13:20, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, as per Croat Canuck. --Krm500 21:23, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support As complete a biography as I have seen. Well sourced, well organized. Good quality images. The suggestion that seven citations to seven box scores to "prove" that Brodeur set the record for most playoff shutouts is required when one reliable source stating same exists is completely ridiculous. Resolute 00:15, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Object, non-free dust cover of autobiography does not have a fair use rationale. --Iamunknown 22:32, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Umm...ok...Sportskido8 22:59, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I added the fair use rational. Quadzilla99 23:09, 25 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
How about if we remove the image from the article, would that change your objection? --Krm500 00:58, 27 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
There is no reason why we can't have a book cover with a good fair use rationale in the article. Sportskido8 22:39, 27 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I never objected to the use of the image in the article and, unless someone would provide a diff suggesting that I did, I would appreciate it you forever dropped the matter. I think that the fair use rationale could certainly be strengthened and I've detailed my comments in an clear, actionable format at Image talk:Brodeurbook.jpg. --Iamunknown 06:11, 28 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - The article was fun to read, and is very topical too : )

I added Brodeur's profile on the Hockey Hall of Fame's Legends of Hockey site into the external links section too. ColtsScore 07:34, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • This page corroborates Martinbrodeur.net (although possibly one mirrors the other). Is it possible to convert this to an inline citation reference where applicable since so many factual claims are referenced from this source. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio) 19:09, 28 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think the only part of that site that this article mirrors is the early childhood section? Wherever they got their info, it was from somewhere else because a lot of sites have a similar description. Sportskido8 01:55, 29 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
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