Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Marcus Ward Lyon, Jr./archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Ian Rose 10:03, 4 March 2013 (UTC) [1].[reply]

Marcus Ward Lyon, Jr.[edit]

Marcus Ward Lyon, Jr. (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): – Maky « talk » 16:02, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this short article for featured article because I feel that it meets all of the criteria. The article covers every source I can find on the subject. The only known exception is his burial record at Arlington National Cemetery, which would provide an interment date and grave location (section & tombstone number). I will include the information if someone can suggest a proper citation, especially since I cannot link directly to the record, only to the database. (An image of the tombstone may also be in the public domain under PD-USGov, but I'm not certain and cannot get a response from Arlington National Cemetery.) Assistance on these two issues would be most welcome. If any other sources can be located, please send them to me and I will quickly incorporate them.

Lyon was not known for a single, major contribution to the sciences, but contributed about 160 papers over the course of his career. He named two of the slow loris species that were recently elevated to species status, and is the authority on several genera and species of mammals (including a ton of synonyms). In all, this should be a complete, short article about a lesser known naturalist from the early 1900s. – Maky « talk » 16:02, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Image is PD and fine. Sources are fine except the title for Just should use an endash instead of a hyphen and there's a doubled period in Layne, so I'll have to strongly oppose because of those tremendously outrageous issues ;-) Apparently Notre Dame has his family papers, not sure if you could access those. There's also "first published plant lists of the Indiana Dunes, then notes on ground squirrels and badgers anticipating his 1936 opus on mammals of Indiana" in American Midland Naturalist (January 2009), 161 (1), pg. 13-44. Nikkimaria (talk) 18:07, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the source and image review. Fixes made as requested... Lol! Living in Atlanta, I don't have access to the Notre Dame library, and I'm not even sure how I would cite family papers if I could get them to send me digital copies. What kind of information would you like to get from them? Lastly, are you simply wanting a mention of those lists and notes (per this source)? – Maky « talk » 19:35, 24 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No, just mentioned them because you had wondered above about further sources. I don't think it's a big issue either way. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:01, 25 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Added the stuff from American Midland Naturalist as requested. – Maky « talk » 05:07, 30 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comments from Ceranthor
Lead
  • Born in 1875 to a military family, he showed an early interest in zoology by collecting local wildlife around the army posts at which his father was stationed - I think the use of by makes this sentence awkward. Show and by don't mix well. Maybe at an early age he began collecting?
I'm not sure I see how this is awkward, but I have attempted to reword it. If the modifications are insufficient, please let me know. – Maky « talk » 17:55, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • U.S. National Museum (USNM) - Is there a reason US isn't spelled out? Is this the traditional spelling or something?
Good point. Fixed in two locations. – Maky « talk » 17:55, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • In 1919, he and his wife, Martha, moved to South Bend, Indiana to join a new clinic. - Why is it a "new" clinic? It's the first mention of a clinic I've seen.
Changed to "newly opened clinic". – Maky « talk » 17:55, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Following the move, he began to write more medical publications, - he began to write publications on medicine. More medical doesn't make sense as it is.
Fixed. – Maky « talk » 17:55, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Early
  • His family moved between various army posts across the United States throughout his childhood, although there are few records documenting his early life. - The use of although is improper here; the second half doesn't contradict anything in the first half.
I'm having a hard time rewording this. I will revisit it soon. – Maky « talk » 17:55, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I've attempted to reword this. Please let me know if it's better. – Maky « talk » 05:07, 30 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • As a child, Lyon enjoyed collecting insects and other animals around the army posts,[1] particularly Watertown Arsenal near Boston, Massachusetts.[4] - This needs to be recast. As is, it reads as he enjoyed collecting Watertown Arsenal (collective noun for a type of insect) near Boston. I think adding an "at" would leave it too wordy. Better to reword this entirely.
I'm also having a hard time with this one, so I used your "at" idea for the time being. I'll revisit it soon. – Maky « talk » 17:55, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I've attempted to reword this. Please let me know if it's better. – Maky « talk » 05:07, 30 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • By the time Lyon was in high school, his father had been restationed at Rock Island Arsenal, and the young man graduated from nearby Rock Island High School. - This sentence doesn't proceed logically; it doesn't explain that Lyon moved schools (with his father), rather that he graduated from a different school.
Fix attempted. Please let me know if it is clearer. – Maky « talk » 17:55, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • He attended Brown University and completed his Ph.B. in 1897, which included training in biology. - Unless I'm mistaken, the degree doesn't include training in biology, his studies did.
Good catch. Fixed. – Maky « talk » 17:55, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Career
  • In 1898, he moved to Washington, D.C. and in conjunction with his graduate studies, he became a part-time Aid in the Division of Mammals at the U.S. National Museum (USNM), now the National Museum of Natural History of the Smithsonian Institution.[1] - I can't help but feel the "now" bit would be better as a footnote.
Footnote made. – Maky « talk » 05:07, 30 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • He was sent to Venezuela in 1899 by the USNM, along with Lieutenant Wirt Robinson of the United States Army, to collect mammal specimens. - "He was sent to Venezuela with Lieutenant...Army in 1899 by...to collect mammal specimens." is better.
Thanks for the suggestion. I've used it. – Maky « talk » 05:07, 30 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • despite continuing his education and taking on teaching assignments at Howard University Medical School.[1][2] He taught physiology from 1903–1904 and 1907–1909, as well as bacteriology from 1909 to 1915.[2] - No need to separate these sentences. Can be condensed to "and teaching physiology and bacteriology at Howard University Medical School from 1903-1904 and 1907-1909, respectively. The dates can go wherever you want, but the two sentences definitely should be combined.
Done, though the example you gave incorrectly attributed the dates. Because of the complex dates, I've put them in parentheses. I hope that is acceptable. – Maky « talk » 05:07, 30 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • From his work as a mammalogist, Lyon is considered the taxonomic authority for the family - From is not the right word. Because of is better, but not perfect.
I never liked how this sentence started when I first wrote it, and I agree that "Because of..." is not perfect. But as before, I'm at a loss. If I think of something better, I will change it, but for now, I'm using "Because of..." – Maky « talk » 05:07, 30 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • From his work as a mammalogist, Lyon is considered the taxonomic authority for the family Ptilocercidae (pen-tailed treeshrews).[6] He also is the authority for the genus Anathana (the Madras treeshrew)[7] and two genera of leporids (rabbits and hares), - These sentences should be combined.
Done. – Maky « talk » 05:07, 30 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Although he was never able to visit the Far East, he acquired a strong knowledge of the fauna and geography from studying the collections that were sent to the USNM.[16] Following the end of his relationship with the USNM in 1912, he not only began publishing basic medical studies, but also continued to publish mammalogy material.[1] - The first sentence here seems out of place, unless it is saying that his publications related to the Far East's fauna. Otherwise I think it's an unnecessary detail.
It does refer to his publications about Far East fauna. I have done my best to fix, but you may not like it. Please share you opinion. I am open to suggestions, too. – Maky « talk » 05:07, 30 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Despite his interest in and occupation with medical science, his passion was for the study of living and extinct mammals, which was reflected in how his contributions to mammalogy outnumbered his medical papers.[16] - "which was" and after reads like original research, and the readers can gather that themselves, anyway, even if it is sourced.
Good point. Deleted. – Maky « talk » 05:07, 30 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Personal life
  • Lyon criticized poorly managed conservation programs in his paper "Conservation from the Naturalist's Point of View" (1939), and in his final paper, he envisioned life around the Kankakee Outwash Plain before human activities had changed it. Lyon also gave up his cottage in the Indiana Dunes after the wildlife refuge was converted into a vacation destination.[16] - What is his final paper? It's not clear.
Title provided. – Maky « talk » 05:07, 30 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Oppose - The prose is rather clunky and needs a copyedit. I can't help but feel that the article is at times a bit redundant to give it length, and becomes choppy. ceranthor 18:41, 25 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for the delayed replies/fixes. I have done my best to attempt the examples you pointed out above. I have also re-read the article but did not notice any other "clunky" prose... but then again, I'm not as good at copyediting as you are. If there are any other problems, please list them. Thanks for the review. – Maky « talk » 05:07, 30 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I think they've all been fixed pretty satisfactorily. The article still needs a copyedit of some form, though. ceranthor 21:56, 31 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Let me know if there are particular places that need work. Suggestions are welcome. – Maky « talk » 04:36, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support from Ceranthor. The prose has improved greatly, and it is far less choppy than it was. I think it is close enough that I can comfortably support. That being said, the quote "ardent conservationist" under personal life needs to be cited. Otherwise, it looks good to me. ceranthor 19:49, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Kitchen Roll.

  • "Born in 1875 to a military family" --> "Born into a military family" - no need to state the year of his birth again.
Good point. Done. – Maky « talk » 04:31, 31 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "At the same time, he taught medical classes at Howard University Medical School and later George Washington University Medical School." --> "At the same time, he taught at Howard University Medical School and later George Washington University Medical School." - no need to say medical classes, as they are both medical schools.
Another very good point. Fixed. – Maky « talk » 04:31, 31 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He attended Brown University and completed his Ph.B. in 1897, and his training included biology." --> "He attended Brown University and completed his Ph.B. in 1897, which included training in biology."
Done. – Maky « talk » 04:31, 31 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Because of his work as a mammalogist, Lyon is considered the taxonomic authority for the family Ptilocercidae (pen-tailed treeshrews), as well as the authority for the genus Anathana (the Madras treeshrew)" --> "Because of his work as a mammalogist, Lyon is considered the taxonomic authority for the family Ptilocercidae (pen-tailed treeshrews), as well as the genus Anathana (the Madras treeshrew)"
Done. – Maky « talk » 04:31, 31 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Until the move to Indiana, Lyon wrote many papers in the field of mammalogy, and particularly on the morphology, systematics, and zoogeography of mammals." - is the "and" necessary? ("mammalogy, particularly"). If it is the sentence still feels a bit clunky.
Changes made. Let me know if it's a little better. – Maky « talk » 04:31, 31 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Following the end of his relationship with the USNM in 1912, he not only began publishing basic medical studies, but also continued to publish mammalogy material." - publish and publishing used in the same sentence feels awkward.
Changed one of them to "write". Good enough? – Maky « talk » 04:31, 31 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "articles collected by Lyon and his wife's scrapbook of her life in college." I can't make sense of this. Can it be reworded?
Changes made. Better? – Maky « talk » 04:31, 31 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Ceranthor that the article needs a copyedit.  Kitchen Roll  (Exchange words) 14:51, 30 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Within the next few days, I plan to review WP:1A (a long, but helpful page written by a user to help people learn how to copyedit). I review that page about once a year. After that, I'll re-read the article and try my best to clean it up more. However, if you can point out any other issues, I'd appreciate it. Thanks for the reviews and suggestions! – Maky « talk » 04:31, 31 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Brilliant. Thanks for the quick response. I'll give the article another read soon.  Kitchen Roll  (Exchange words) 17:14, 31 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

More comments The article reads much better after the copyedit, but there are still issues. Here are some more comments. I may add more later.

  • "Born into a military family, he demonstrated an early interest in zoology when he began collecting local wildlife around the army posts at which his father was stationed." could be worded better.
I've tried tying the points together better and making parts of it more succinct. Your thoughts? – Maky « talk » 02:19, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Lyon acquired the rank of Major in the Medical Reserve Corps during World War I, and was appointed to honorary positions during his career, including the position of president of the American Society of Mammalogists from 1931 to 1932." --> "Lyon acquired the rank of Major in the Medical Reserve Corps during World War I, and was appointed to honorary positions during his career, including president of the American Society of Mammalogists from 1931 to 1932."
Done. – Maky « talk » 02:19, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The last two sentences begin with "he" in the second paragraph of the lead.
Fixed. – Maky « talk » 02:19, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "His father's military career led his family to move across the United States throughout his childhood and adolescence." --> "Because of his father's military career, his family moved across the United States throughout his childhood and adolescence." Also "his" is repeated three times in this sentence.
Done and fixed. – Maky « talk » 02:19, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Around each army post, and particularly at Watertown Arsenal near Boston, Massachusetts, the young Lyon enjoyed collecting insects and other animals." --> "The young Lyon enjoyed collecting insects and animals around the army posts, particularly at Watertown Arsenal near Boston, Massachusetts."
Done. – Maky « talk » 02:19, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In 1898, he moved to Washington, D.C. and in conjunction with his graduate studies, he became a part-time Aid in the Division of Mammals at the United States National Museum (USNM)." --> "In 1898, in conjunction with his graduate studies, he moved to Washington, D.C. to become a part-time Aid in the Division of Mammals at the United States National Museum (USNM)."
I moved the year around to avoid the double "in" at the beginning of the sentence. Otherwise, this is done. – Maky « talk » 02:19, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He retained his post at USNM until 1912 and taught physiology (1903–1904 and 1907–1909) and bacteriology (1909–1915) at Howard University Medical School." This sentence combines two unrelated points, linking them with "and". I think this sentence should be split up.
Done. – Maky « talk » 02:19, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In the latter half of 1915, he began teaching at George Washington University Medical School, handling courses in bacteriology and pathology from 1915 until 1917 ... " --> "In the latter half of 1915, he began teaching at George Washington University Medical School, handling courses in bacteriology and pathology until 1917 ... " - no need to mention 1915 twice.
Good catch. Should have been obvious. Fixed. – Maky « talk » 02:19, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Lyon served in the U.S. Army during World War I, joining in 1917 and serving as a pathologist at the Walter Reed Army Hospital for two years." --> "From 1917, Lyon joined the U.S. Army for two years, serving as a pathologist at the Walter Reed Army Hospital during World War I."
Done. – Maky « talk » 02:19, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "His wife, Martha, was also extended the same offer, and joined the clinic as an ophthalmologist." --> "His wife, Martha, was extended the same offer, and joined as an ophthalmologist."
Done. – Maky « talk » 02:19, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • The final paragraph of the "career" section uses the word "incorporated" three times.
Done. – Maky « talk » 02:19, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "After moving to Indiana in 1919 ... " --> "After he moved to Indiana ... ". No need to say when he moved there again.
Done. – Maky « talk » 02:19, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

 Kitchen Roll  (Exchange words) 22:27, 16 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry. Somehow I missed these comments while I was moving. I will address them tonight. – Maky « talk » 11:53, 24 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for fixing these problems. I can now support the article.  Kitchen Roll  (Exchange words) 13:28, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you very much for your time reviewing the article and suggesting fixes. – Maky « talk » 03:07, 28 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments. I'm copyediting the article; please revert anything I accidentally screw up. I'll try to give detailed rationales in the edit summaries for anything non-trivial. I'll add comments below as I go through the article.

  • Poking about in Google Books brought up the "Annual Report of the Board of Regents of the Smithsonian Institution" for the year ending 30 June 1906, which shows Lyon as having been appointed Assistant Curator in the Division of Mammals during the prior year. This directly contradicts your source that gives the dates as 1898-1900; I would think the Annual Report is the more reliable source for this. The 1908 report shows him still with that title; I'll see if I can find more examples. Aha! Googling "marcus lyon aid division of mammals 1910" under Google Books brings up a "Guide to the Smithsonian Archives", issue 5, which has this snippet visible in the search: "Other staff members of the Division of Mammals have included Marcus Ward Lyon, Jr., Aid, 1898- 1906, and Assistant Curator, 1906- 1909". For some reason that information doesn't come up inside the book, but I think that's enough to doubt your other source.

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:33, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

For some reason, I am not having the same luck with your search strings on Google Books. Searching "marcus lyon aid division of mammals 1910" did not pull up "Guide to the Smithsonian Archives", but instead pulled up the Historical Catalogue of Brown University. I did find the snippet you mentioned by searching directly for the volume—here is a link. As you said, your source says "Aid, 1898- 1906, and Assistant Curator, 1906- 1909", whereas the one from Brown University says "assistant curator, U. S. National Museum 1905–12". It seems like every source says something different, and even though I'm inclined to trust a source from the Smithsonian, I'm worried we're getting into original research. Your thoughts before I proceed with any changes? – Maky « talk » 03:07, 28 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Now finished with the copyedit. I'm ready to support once the issue above with the dates of his assistant curatorship has been addressed. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:56, 27 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the copyedit! I'm fine with the changes you made. I have made comments above regarding the factual error, but will need your help resolving it. – Maky « talk » 03:07, 28 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
How about changing the text just to indicate that he was assistant curator "for a time", or something neutral like that, and then adding a footnote that gives the multiple sources and the varying date ranges? I would include the "Annual Reports", if you can find them; if not I'd be glad to add them for you. I think those are probably the most reliable source among those we're discussing because they are direct documentation of that year, and they're not really primary -- primary would be a letter from him to the Smithsonian accepting the post, I would say. I don't think it's OR to include sources like this, but unfortunately one can't do much with them other than confirm that he had the post that year -- by their nature it's not going to be easy to identify the end of his term. Though if you can find the annual reports for the years before and after his appointment I think that could suffice -- again, with the situation explained in the note. Do you think this is an acceptable approach? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 03:37, 28 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm fine with the footnote idea, and will implement that now. I found digital copies of the Annual Reports by year at BHL. However, I can't search the content using the web interface, and the PDFs take forever to download, otherwise I would look at every year for a more complete record. Using the OCR to search the volume ending 30 June 1906, I don't see where it says Lyon was appointed Assistant Curator in the Division of Mammals the previous year as you claimed. What page were you on? Anyway, I'll see what I can do. – Maky « talk » 18:10, 28 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This is the "about this book" link; the text is on page 50. Let me know if that doesn't work for you and I can give you the exact text. I'll keep digging and see if I can find the announcement of his successor. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 23:10, 28 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the link. Because the book is for the "year ending June 30, 1906", it's impossible to say if he was promoted in 1905 or 1906, I think. If you could suggest a final sentence for that second note (b), I will use the link you provided as a reference. As it stands, I think the note says what can be said. – Maky « talk » 04:08, 1 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I've switched to support, above, while we tweak the wording on this; this is just a detail. I think the note can go into details that would be too tedious for the main text, so how about making this the second sentence of that note: "According to the Guide to the Smithsonian Archives, he was an Aid from 1898 until 1906 and Assistant Curator from 1906 to 1909, and this is supported by the museum's annual report for the year ending June 30, 1906, which recorded his promotion to Assistant Curator during the preceding twelve months." That places the information adjacent to the other source directly related to the Smithsonian, and puts the two most likely to be accurate first in the note. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:03, 1 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I just made another tweak to clarify that McIntosh and the Brown source don't give dates for his post as Aid; as a result I've moved the McIntosh ref to the end to cover that clause. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 13:47, 1 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you very much for the suggestion and tweak. I tweaked it further by showing it start date for the Aid position, and I tried to find an end date for his Assistant Curator position, but those volumes appear to stop reporting personnel changes before 1909. Feel free to tweak the wording further to fit your taste. Also, I was wondering if you had an opinion on the photo of the tombstone at Arlington (mentioned at the top of this page)? I'm pretty sure it was taken by an employee of the US Government, but they are not responding to my emails. It would be nice to add a picture near the bottom of the article to break up the monotony of the text. Regardless, thanks again for the helpful and copyedit review. – Maky « talk » 16:38, 1 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
What you've done looks fine. I looked at the tombstone page but can't figure out whether it is PD, though like you I suspect it is. Sorry, not an expert on that sort of thing. Anyway, nice article; I hope it gets promoted. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 03:53, 2 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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