Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Halo Graphic Novel

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted 00:08, 17 February 2008.

Halo Graphic Novel[edit]

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Minimal plot, long on background and behind the scenes of the book. Here it is... David Fuchs (talk) 23:50, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oops, noobish mistake. It's fixed. David Fuchs (talk) 01:32, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Check Newsarama.com and PublishersWeekly.com for sales/retailer orders information. Publisher's Weekly for instance has a column that analyzes sales of Marvel publications every month. WesleyDodds (talk) 06:19, 7 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've added in the sales info to the last paragraph of reception. David Fuchs (talk) 02:30, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments from James086
    • Is the article written with British or American English? It doesn't matter which is used but it should be consistent throughout. In the section Armor Testing: "...pencils by W. Andrew Robinson and colors by Ed Lee. and in the section Gallery and supplemental: "A full-colour poster featuring the book's cover art was also released... For this article I would recommend American English to be consistent with the section title "Armor Testing" but British English could be used.
    • Perhaps rename the "Background" section to "Background and development" because the second paragraph seem to be more development related than background. Possibly split into 2 sections but I like the way the text flows at the moment so I would prefer that they stay as 1 section.
    • Nice work and support assuming that these will be addressed by the conclusion of the FAC. I'm watching this FAC so I can respond to queries here. James086Talk | Email 10:43, 7 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • The previous support is very hard for me to see; please follow the standard format given in the instructions at WP:FAC. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:39, 9 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
All concerns above addressed. David Fuchs (talk) 02:30, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - my concerns were addressed (this separated support is to make it clearer for Raul or Sandy). I will help out with the points raised by Maralia and any others, but I haven't contributed to the article otherwise. I am an active contributer to the Halo Wikiproject however which could be considered a COI but that's not for me to decide. James086Talk | Email 11:46, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, from a quick glance it doesn't seem like this article is following the graphic novels MOS. Any particular reason? I presume stories = plot section, but who are the characters? Unless you are familiar with the Halo universe, the article seems a little confusing. Gallery and supplemental seems like it should be a discussion under an overall discussion of the publication of the novel. With it having a main heading, it seems out of place. Has the article been copyedited? There are several sentences with references floating in the middle when they don't seem to need to be. Collectonian (talk) 21:28, 7 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I wasn't aware of any format for graphic novels. It doesn't contain a character section because there are not full plot summaries and all the characters are wikilinked to List of Halo characters which contains all series characters. Would you prefer the supplementals section to go under the background? As for copyediting, I plan on running through it once more over this weekend. (�US EST) David Fuchs (talk) 02:30, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think having a brief character section for the major characters in the novel, with a synopsis of their role in the novel and links to their main section would be good. Without such a section, a person would really have to be familiar with Halo already to get some aspects of the article. A character section would help with that. I think the supplements should be incorporated into a section discussing its publication, or baring that the background section should work. I'd also strongly recommend applying the graphic novel MOS to the article, especially for the headings and organization. Collectonian (talk) 22:24, 9 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Still oppose, as it still presume too much familiarity with Halo, and earlier concerns remain unaddressed except for the moving of the supplemental stuff. Collectonian (talk) 17:52, 14 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'll address your issues on your talk page. David Fuchs (talk) 20:52, 15 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved copyedit issues from Maralia
  • Oppose for now. This article needs a thorough copyedit (as I see you've mentioned above); some examples follow:
  • "Halo Graphic Novel is a single issue graphic novel published by Marvel Comics in partnership with Bungie Studios, and was released on July 19, 2006." - differential in verb tense makes this awkward; you could easily work the date into the later sentence that begins "Upon release"

|:*The first instance of "Halo universe" is not linked in the lead, although the second is

  • Italics are inconsistent on the word 'Halo' ('Halo universe' in the lead but 'Halo universe' elsewhere)
    • I think I found them all (it should always be italicised). James086Talk | Email 11:46, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "This also allowed the studio greater access to various artists whom they hoped to contribute;" - the phrase 'they hoped to contribute' is nonsensical here; it's meant to describe the studio's hope for the artists to contribute, but as written it describes the studio's hope to contribute
  • In the infobox, the image caption "Halo Graphic Novel Front Cover" should have italics on the book title and should use sentence case
    • Changed to "The front cover of the Halo Graphic Novel." James086Talk | Email 11:46, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • That's better; now drop the full stop please, since it's not a complete sentence. Maralia (talk) 04:07, 11 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "What was described as a "dream team" roster of writers and artists Bungie admired was created by lead designer Maria Cabardo" - passive voice is killing this sentence
  • "humanities struggle for survival" - should be the possessive humanity's
  • The formatting of story titles indiscriminately switches from double quotes to italics
  • Fixed in first two story sections; italics remain in latter two stories, and in Reception. Maralia (talk) 04:07, 11 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "A distress call brings the Elite Special Operations Commander, Rtas 'Vadumee to a" - either no comma at all, or commas before and after the name
  • "Like Breaking Quarantine" - at this point in the article, Breaking Quarantine has never been mentioned; this phrase draws a comparison to it, but one has no idea what it is
  • "A test run on SPARTAN II MJOLNIR Mark VI battle armor that proves to be a challenging endeavor for all involved as the limits of the armor's abilities are put to the test by both its SPARTAN user, Maria-062, and UNSC special forces during an intense wargame exercise." - nonsensical; subject verb disagreement (a test run...are), and poor prose (a test run...put to the test)
  • "Initially a minor, background character in the first game his expanded role in Halo 2" - comma needed after game
  • "Both art and story was provided by" - subject verb disagreement
  • "The material was also praised for the diverse range of storytelling and art styles that lent the novel the feel of an anthology yet still retaining a cohesive whole." - disparity between past tense verb 'lent' and present participle 'retaining'
  • "Due to the success of the novel, Marvel Comics and Bungie Studios announced at San Diego Comic-Con 2006, Halo: Uprising a four-issue monthly Halo comic book mini-series to launch Summer 2007." - this sentence needs a complete rewrite
  • The section header "Footnotes and References" should be in sentence case
    • Did you mean that "references" shouldn't be capitalised? I de-capitalised it. James086Talk | Email 11:46, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In general, this suffers from a presumption of audience. The lead does not describe the genre or basic story arc of Halo in general or of these stories in specific. Mentions of bits of Halo lore are sometimes presented with no context whatsoever (see first instance of "The Covenant"). I'm not sure I agree with the suggestion above about adding a character section, but additional storyline context would make this a much more compelling read to those of us who are somewhat deficient in Halo lore :) Maralia (talk) 07:34, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've struck out completed issues on my list. As the story sections have been rewritten for context/plot, I'll reread them in full before further comment. Maralia (talk) 04:07, 11 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I've hidden my issues that have been resolved. I remain opposed, though, for the following reasons:
  • The lead still contains exactly nothing about the story arc, universe, or even the genre of the work. This is just crucial. At present, the lead merely tells us that this is a book based on a computer game.
  • The context elsewhere in the article has been improved by the rewrite of the individual story sections, but that rewrite has introduced new copyedit issues:
  • "but also features an appearance by the future Arbiter, before he is stripped of his rank for his failures in Halo: Combat Evolved" - it's not clear whether 'the future Arbiter' is 'Vadumee or someone else; also missing full stop at end of sentence.
  • "Elite Special Operations Commander Rtas 'Vadumee and his team respond to a distress call, and board the supply craft Infinite Succor hanging crippled in the outer reaches of a star system. " - 'hanging crippled' is, well, hanging crippled in this sentence :) It needs a definitive object.
  • "but 'Vadumee learns that some other creatures have killed or infected the crew of the Succor. 'Vadumee learns from the Prophet on board the ship that the Succor has been infested by the Flood..." - awkward phrasing (killed or infected), repetitive language ('Vadumee learned..'Vadumee learned).
  • "Lee Hammock described the process of writing the story as a "heady task", in particular the importance of respecting the Halo fanbases' active involvement in the storyline and that the "characters that they know as a part of themselves are portrayed aptly"" - the second half of the sentence has no grammatical connection to the first half yet is not a complete sentence in itself either.
  • "as the UNSC demoes a new version" - this is incorrect usage of 'demo'; they were testing the armor, not demonstrating it.
  • "launched a directed attack" - as opposed to an undirected attack? or is this meant to be 'direct attack'?
  • "The story is a human drama told through the eyes of a reporter" - the phrase 'human drama' confusingly mixes POV (human) with genre (drama); 'told through the eyes of' is sort of mixed metaphors.
  • "Jean Giraud explained his draw to the project was influenced by his son's enjoyment of the game series which ultimately compelled him to accept an invitation to contribute his art" - lots of extra words in this sentence. Perhaps 'Jean Giraud explained that his son's enjoyment of the game series ultimately compelled...'
  • In the references, is it really necessary to link to the book's ISBN 7 times?
Barring any significant new content, I should be able to support once these issues are addressed. I offer an apology in advance if any snark crept through in my explanations above; I have a terrible headache at the moment, but felt I owed you a quick response. Maralia (talk) 19:43, 14 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
No offense taken. I'll get to working on those issues. David Fuchs (talk) 20:52, 15 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose based on criteria 1a and 1c as follows: Support. --Laser brain (talk) 04:05, 14 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • General style concern (1a): Pervasive use of passive voice affects readability throughout. An example is: "What was described as a "dream team" roster of writers and artists Bungie admired was created by lead designer Maria Cabardo, and through a period of negotiation Bungie was able to gain contributions from many of those named on the list." Almost every sentence in the article is in the passive voice, which obscures or in some cases eliminates the subject of the sentence.
    • General concern that secondary sources are not offered in the "Stories" plot summaries (1c).
      • This is still a concern but it is not enough for me to oppose. I did a cursory search and it didn't look promising that any secondary academic sources would be available for the plot summaries. However, if there are any magazine articles (maybe a comics journal?) that summarizes the plots, it would be great to add it as a source. --Laser brain (talk) 04:05, 14 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Minor issues:
I've rewritten some of the sentences where the structure made it unclear, added more to the FUR, and fixed the first sentence. David Fuchs (talk) 23:43, 13 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved issues from indopug
  • The cover of the book tells me it is The Halo Graphic Novel - why does the article's name not have a "The"?
  • the article assumes the reader already knows about Halo; I think a line in the lead and a paragraph in the "Background" section that explain it for noobs is necessary: "Halo is a video-games series created by Bungie... it was very popular..."
  • Whats an "art lead"?
  • "The original concept of expanding the Halo series into new media beyond that of video games began early in the development of the Halo franchise, as a method of adding new stories to the Halo mythos outside of the main story line of the games; sequential art was to be the main focus." - can this sentence be simplified/shortened - you seem to be saying the same thing twice. Also, who exactly are we talking about in these initial sentences - Bungie?
  • A "dream team" - is that right?
  • Bungie announced the partnership on March 17, 2006 - is that necessary? A specific date like that really adds nothing.
  • created solely for the book - didn't see what this added/meant - removed it myself.
  • "A few promotional pieces were created ... preview pages of the material." - Ack, should be rewritten; a lot of stuff is being said twice (the preview for example)
  • The novel's material - can you find another word other that "material"? - Wouldn't just "The novel" suffice?
  • Can the plot for the first book be shortened? the others seem shorter.
  • "citing the wealth of contributions from recognized artists and the strength of the material in fleshing out the Halo fictional world." - rewrite; doesn't seem grammatically correct right now.
  • "praised for the diverse range of storytelling" - you might want to attribute that to a reviewer: "Jon Smith praised Halo for its 'diverse range of storytelling...'"
  • Does this new monthly series have a name?
  • Bookscan and Diamond sales charts - any wikilinks?
  • A word other than "guts"? Not done: "moxie"? huh? maybe "daring" or "being brave enough to". Further Succinct though it may be, surely there is a more common word than "moxie". I'm sure most common-folk don't know this word.
  • August '06 newsarama has no mention of Halo... one of its links does though; change the cite.
Fix these, and i will have no problem in supporting. indopug (talk) 05:23, 12 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: USA Today did an article on this that you may be able to use: [1] maclean 01:07, 13 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I've integrated some of the content into the background. Good find, thanks! David Fuchs (talk) 03:10, 13 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Support Concerns have been addressed. Good job indopug (talk) 04:02, 14 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Bungie Studios is singular. Make sure this is fixed throughout the article; I did a few edits to demonstrate how the company should be referred to. WesleyDodds (talk) 08:10, 14 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Contingent support presuming nom is okay with my unusually heavy copyedit-verging-on-rewrite tonight. David: please especially review what I've done with the lead, "Last Voyage", and "Second Sunrise", to make sure I haven't bungled the plot summary or misrepresented your sources. I've hidden all my prior concerns, as they were addressed by either your edits or mine. I was really hesitant to muck with it myself because I'm no Halo expert, but copy/pasting sentences here for fixes was getting tedious (probably for you too). Maralia (talk) 06:23, 16 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It looks fine, and you didn't misrepresent anything. Thanks a bunch, David Fuchs (talk) 16:32, 16 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Glad to hear I didn't botch anything; (unfamiliar subject) + (text I've read too many times) + (copyediting after midnight) is not the best recipe for success. Maralia (talk) 17:46, 16 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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