Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Faith Leech

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by User:SandyGeorgia 23:21, 22 November 2008 [1].

Faith Leech[edit]

Nominator(s): YellowMonkey (click here to choose Australia's next top model!)

Olympic swimmer of Australia. Won gold in 4x100 free relay in 1956, and bronze in the 100m free. YellowMonkey (click here to choose Australia's next top model!) 03:04, 4 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment We need an image of the swimmer!--Andrea 93 (msg) 05:52, 4 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There aren't any free images of her and WP:WIAFA does not require portraits etc. YellowMonkey (click here to choose Australia's next top model!) 00:42, 5 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Question: is she reclusive or the like to make it difficult to get a picture? If there's sufficient validity to that, it may be appropriate to use a non-free image in this case (particularly a photo of her olympic win). But if it's just the fact no one on the project has a picture of her of their own, then you're right, we don't break NFCC for purposes of FAC. --MASEM 14:51, 5 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
She has had cancer recently and probably doesn't want to be bothered. She no longer runs the jewelry shop and handed control to her son. A non-free image will require it to satisfy NFCC8, but in reality all it does is show what here face looks like. YellowMonkey (click here to choose Australia's next top model!) 00:55, 6 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments - sources look okay, links checked out with the link checker tool. Ealdgyth - Talk 13:38, 4 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose
  • "as child" – "as a child"
  • Could you break up the lead paragraph into two or more to make it easier to read?
The lead is hardly long at all to the extent of requiring a split. YellowMonkey (click here to choose Australia's next top model!) 00:42, 5 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "which positioning herself" – "which positioned herself"
  • "selection in the following year" – "selection the following year"
  • "A beach on Mornington Peninsula, where Leech learnt to swim." – "A beach on Mornington Peninsula, where Leech learned to swim"
  • "17.4 s" – "17.4 seconds" – speaking of which, can we expand units wherever possible?
  • "times a year holidays"?
  • "in 1 m 7.1 s" – like this. Expand it would certainly help with readability.
  • "in 1 m 7.6 s become" – "in 1 m 7.6 s to become"?
Removed all of these uncharacteristically brainless words. YellowMonkey (click here to choose Australia's next top model!) 00:42, 5 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "youngest ever winner " – "youngest winner ever "
  • "Championships, winning" – "Championships and won"
I don't see anything wrong with these two instances. YellowMonkey (click here to choose Australia's next top model!) 00:42, 5 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's the first section. Gary King (talk) 20:15, 4 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments -

  • "she won gold in the 4 x 100 m freestyle relay and bronze in the 100 metres (m) freestyle event." Can the full spelling of metres be moved to the first use of the distance?
  • "She twice broke the Australian record in the 100 yardsd..."
  • I see fourteenth and 15 in the lead. Is this your cutoff?
  • International career: "This feat has only been equalled by the Americans in 1920 in Antwerp." With the 1920 link, try to make it clearer that the link goes to an Olympics page. Otherwise, readers may think that this is a normal date link. Giants2008 (17-14) 04:58, 5 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed all of these. YellowMonkey (click here to choose Australia's next top model!) 05:07, 5 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments — Some things I noticed from the first section:
  • The second child of Johnstone Melmore and Jessie Francis Leech,[2] Leech was born in the inland regional Victorian town of Bendigo. - As an American reader, where is Bendigo?
  • This achievement prompted her parents to rent an apartment in Melbourne, so that she could train with Froelich on a regular basis. - Remove "that".
  • The regular sessions bore fruit at the 1955 Victorian Championships; Leech won the open 110 yd and 220 yd freestyle in times of 1 min 7.2 s and 2 min 39.3 s respectively, setting state records in both events. - Is there a better term for "bore fruit"?
  • Leech trained once a day, swimming no more than three kilometres. - Needs a conversion.
  • Her long streamlined action prompted observers to call her a "flying fish". - Not sure "prompted" is the best choice of words. "Caused" or "led" might work.

–Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 18:48, 5 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Done. YellowMonkey (click here to choose Australia's next top model!) 00:55, 6 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Image review - I fixed the image tag and organized the image description - all is good now. Awadewit (talk) 00:10, 6 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support. As Awadewit and others point out, everything seems to be good now. If there are any other issues they can be brought up here, but the article looks great to me. It meets the requirements, has a enough sources, and is very informative. Job well done. Khoikhoi 08:03, 11 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I was only commenting on the image. Awadewit (talk) 15:47, 11 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments - The story is interesting but the prose and structure doesn't do it justice. Examples:
  • Too many large paragraph blocks that could be broken down more by subject matter.
Done. YellowMonkey (click here to choose Australia's next top model!) 03:05, 19 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The article is still difficult to decipher. For example, the last part describing her wins at the Olympics does not stand out, especially her winning of the gold. I reread it a couple of times, and finally did a search for "gold". Then I discovered, buried in the lead, that she did win gold. Is this fact not is one of the highlights of the article, a major reason for her notability? —Mattisse (Talk) 18:32, 19 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Made more obvious in the first sentence of the lead. YellowMonkey (click here to choose Australia's next top model!) 00:59, 20 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Prose is at times awkward: "After conventional medicine had failed to rectify her daughter's dietary issues, Leech's mother put her on a fast for ten days at the recommendation of a naturopath. Leech was later put on a diet of fruit, salad and vegetables, with an emphasis on beetroot and carrot juice." - These two sentences repeat "put". Also, "After conventional medicine had failed to rectify her daughter's dietary issues..." seems unnecessarily stilted.
Fixed these and some others. YellowMonkey (click here to choose Australia's next top model!) 03:05, 19 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Seems overly wordy in places: "This achievement prompted her parents to rent an apartment in Melbourne, so she could train with Froelich on a regular basis. Leech moved to the city with her mother, while her father stayed in Bendigo to look after the family's jewellery business." - Perhaps these too sentences could be combined for efficient wording.
Fixed these and some others YellowMonkey (click here to choose Australia's next top model!) 03:05, 19 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Would be improved by more variation in wording: "Leech's regimen differed from most swimmers because Froelich was not an advocate of distance training, and designed shorter workouts for his students. Leech trained once a day, swimming no more than 3 km (1.9 mi). Froelich did not push her to continue training when she felt tired. Froelich emphasised an efficient stroke mechanism, which Leech implemented with a long and graceful arm action." - These four sentences all start with the name of a person.
Done througohout the article. YellowMonkey (click here to choose Australia's next top model!) 03:05, 19 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Odd use of wording in places: "Morgan was then overhauled and passed..." - Is this a correct use of "overhauled"?
Why is this unusual? it is a common term in racing sports to mean catching up, and is not colloquial. YellowMonkey (click here to choose Australia's next top model!) 03:05, 19 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps this usage of the word is common word in Australia. I looked it up in dictionary.com and it was given as the last meaning of the word, so you are right. I have just not heard it used in that way. —Mattisse (Talk) 18:32, 19 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Use of stilted language: "was feted upon returning to her hometown" - I suggest a more contemporary word than "feted".
What's wrong with this word? YellowMonkey (click here to choose Australia's next top model!) 03:05, 19 November 2008 (UTC) [reply]
I guess this is a personal preference issue. To me, that is a word found in poetry, for example, but not really in contemporary use. Perhaps it is different in Australia. —Mattisse (Talk) 18:32, 19 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Also, I wonder if there is a way to present some sense of Faith Leech's personality to liven up the article. The writing seems to me to be factual but remote. There is no sense of how she dealt with all these "issues" in her life. Perhaps some quotes from her would help, or some descriptions of how those close to her perceived her. —Mattisse (Talk) 15:23, 18 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Unlike today, sportspeople in the old days were not seen as stars, and were not profiled and interviewed a lot like they are today, especially, for sports which aren't mainstream ball sports that regular get 20,000+ spectators in a stadium each week. YellowMonkey (click here to choose Australia's next top model!) 03:05, 19 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Is there a reason why she discouraged her sons from being involved in competitive swimming? —Mattisse (Talk) 18:32, 19 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Clarified. YellowMonkey (click here to choose Australia's next top model!) 00:59, 20 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support Interestng read, fast paced – just like the sport. An inspiration for the physically handicapped youth and a good lesson in "determination and training".Dineshkannambadi (talk) 16:33, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support by karanacs. The prose suggestions by Mattisse have helped polish this to a very well-written and interesting article. Two minor issues:
    • Isn't Bendigo Weekly a newspaper? It should be italicized in the references if so.
    • Medianet Press releases should not be italicized

Karanacs (talk) 16:38, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

From what I can figure out, the template give the press release italics. —Mattisse (Talk) 19:43, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - The changes you made have greatly improved the article and I feel good in supporting it. Thanks for being so responsive. —Mattisse (Talk) 19:35, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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