Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Elephant/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose 14:28, 30 January 2013 [1].

Elephant[edit]

Elephant (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): LittleJerry (talk) 16:32, 16 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The FA animal list would not be complete without what is arguably the most famous one of them all. I’ve worked on this article for around two and a half months. It passed GA, was copyedited and has gone through a peer review. I now feel it is up to FA status or at least within striking distance. LittleJerry (talk) 16:32, 16 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - section heading "Hybrids" doesn't tally with the content, which is about one hybrid in particular. It should instead mention other hybrids, if any and discuss hybrids in general. If not, at least the Motty content should be refocused on its contribution to this article - more about the viability of hybrids, for example, and possibly slimmed down, and should note that it's the only example and they don't occur in the wild (if they don't). Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 12:13, 17 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Decided to remove. LittleJerry (talk) 16:56, 17 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Comment re variety of English All the English-speaking African countries in the elephant's range use BE, The Indian subcontinent has tens of millions of BE speakers. Why on earth is it appropriate to write in AE? Jimfbleak - talk to me? 15:01, 18 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed as many words as I could find. Any more? LittleJerry (talk) 15:59, 18 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'll check as I go through, comments to follow soon Jimfbleak - talk to me? 18:03, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
All fine. LittleJerry (talk) 20:11, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Lead South to Southeast Asia. — bit Easter eggish, more obvious what is meant if connected by "and" rather than "to", they are adjacent anyway
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:11, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • 4,700–6,048 kg (10,362–13,334 lb). — seems excessively precise with the upper limit, to within 1 kg/lb
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:11, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • which serve as tools for digging and moving — reads a bit oddly, perhaps which serve as tools for moving objects and digging?
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:11, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • The social life of elephants can vary — I'm not sure what this means or what it adds to what follows.
Removed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:11, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • They are known to use infrasound and seismics for long-distance communication. — "are known" is redundant. "Seismic" link suggests they are using earthquakes, better I think to describe as using ground vibrations or something similar
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:11, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • The lead is a bit choppy in places, can some short sentences be run together?
Fixed as many as I could find. LittleJerry (talk) 20:11, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Etymology Not a big deal, but an etymology for cyclotis would be good. It looks like Greek for "round ear", but you would need to find a source
Can't find really find one. I think this would fit more in the Forest elephant article. LittleJerry (talk) 20:11, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 22:26, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • DNA studies — link?
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 22:26, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • equally related amongst themselves — ??? ...to each other?
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 22:26, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • first described x3 — repetitive
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 22:26, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • ''recognises this as the proper authority while a 2002 and a 2005 study — while studies in 2002 and 2005
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 22:26, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
*Please check through article for overuse of "However"
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 22:26, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Evolution and extinct relatives more tweaks
  • elephantids overlink?
  • several evolutionary trends, such as an increase in size, which led to several giant — repetitive "several"
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 22:26, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Dwarf species more tweaks
  • '' two tons needs metric conversion
I don't know how to do this. LittleJerry (talk) 22:26, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Put tons into kg. LittleJerry (talk) 01:51, 20 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Anatomy and morphology (to tusks) minor tweaks
  • "typically" repeated in first sentence
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 16:18, 20 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • These paired muscles consist of two major types: superficial and internal, the former being divided into dorsals, ventrals and laterals, while the latter are divided into transverse and radiating muscles. — looks as if there should be some links in here
There's nothing to link to. LittleJerry (talk) 16:18, 20 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nevermind, fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 16:54, 20 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • In Sri Lnka, many males seem to lack tusks, and I was told that this has evolved through the type of selection you mention. Anything on this? Note that I will be off line until Friday now
Can't find a source. LittleJerry (talk) 16:18, 20 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'll have a look to see if I've got anything, if not I'll strike Jimfbleak - talk to me? 09:40, 21 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • more tweaks, note that there is an previous edit by another editor, which I didn't check
Its all right. LittleJerry (talk) 15:35, 21 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • thick as 0.98 in is overprecise, I know it's the converter, but 1 in would be better
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 15:34, 21 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • ' pharyngea — link?
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 15:34, 21 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Social organisation section — starts to the two paragraphs too similar to each other?
  • towards the male, which encourages them
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 15:34, 21 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • four-arm fighting forces— means?
Changed. LittleJerry (talk) 15:34, 21 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • In 1824, the first African elephant, also a female, arrived in the US. The first born in the US ... United States had its first African elephant born at the ... Subsequently, the US received... — may be a bit US-centric, but I'm happy to leave to see if other editors share that view
  • In India, male elephants regularly come into villages at night — we went out at 5 am one morning in Sri Lanka so see an elephant wandering through the gardens. Definitely scary (no action required (:
  • Gothic — link
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 15:34, 21 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Image check
  • Forced image sizes should be avoided because they override editor preferences
Fixed, expect for the tusk, skin and musth images since there already too big. LittleJerry (talk) 00:22, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Captions should not normally include the article title, so they should either give the species or omit "elephant", eg the circus poster shuld just be captioned "Circus poster"
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 00:22, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Parts of the article are congested with images, could any be lost without too much pain?
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 00:22, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Deceased" is a bit weaselly, "dead"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 00:22, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Barcelona zoo image doesn't need "being observed"
Removed. LittleJerry (talk) 00:22, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • It's a pity that the two maps have completely different colour schemes, but I accept that isn't obligatory, nor do I expect you to spend time fixing it
  • I can't see any obvious problems with the licences
  • 'Sri Lankan elephant There seem to be adequate RS sources for the low percentage of males with tusks, I've listed a few on the elephant talk page
Added. LittleJerry (talk) 00:22, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is a massive topic, which you have put a great deal of work into. No further issues from me, so I've supported above, although it's inevitable with an articof this length there will be comments from others. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 15:48, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Well-written and very comprehensive article. I feel smarter for having read it. Minor issue outlined below, should be easy to clear up. Neil916 (Talk) 22:57, 21 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Primarily, there seems to be false precision issues with units of measure in the article, probably from several generations of being converted from imperial to metric, and back again. Some of the most notable examples include the anatomy and morphology section, such as weight ranges of male elephants of 4,700kg to 6,048kg, and females weighing 2,720kg on average, just as a couple of examples. There are numerous instances where the use of the {{convert}} template without rounding figures creates additional examples. I made a quick edit earlier where I started to attack this problem, but a much more thorough job needs to be done.Neil916 (Talk) 22:57, 21 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The source actually does state such precise limits: "Adult females weigh from 2160 to 3232 kg and range from 2.20 to 2.60 m in shoulder height. Adult bulls weigh from 4700 to 6048 kg and measure from 3.20 to 4.01 m in height." I agree that the limits are implausibly precise. Is there another source available with this information? Axl ¤ [Talk] 23:51, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 01:05, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I did a quick run through again, and I was able to find only two remaining cases. 1: In the "tusks" subsection of Anatomy and morphology, "the largest recorded was 3.02 m (10 ft) long and weighed..." and 2: in the "Legs, locomotion and posture" subsection of Anatomy and morphology, "They have been recorded swimming for up to six hours [...] at a stretch and at speeds of up to 2.1 km/h (1 mph)." If you're confident that the largest recorded tusk was really exactly 2 cm longer than 3 m, I'd spell it out like that. To me, it seems more likely that the original measurement was 10 ft. and the 3.02m is an artifact of the conversion process, even if the original source was sloppy enough to print it as 3.02 m. Same with the 2.1km/h, but since it's an "up to" figure, I'm pretty confident that the original research didn't specify a maximum speed in units of tenths of a km/hr. I still support promotion even without these issues being fixed, but they seem like really simple common-sense fixes. Neil916 (Talk) 09:00, 24 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. LittleJerry (talk) 15:23, 24 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Seems near there. Some comments:
Ears:
  • To get rid of excess heat from the body, warm blood flows into the capillaries, which release the heat into the environment.
Larger ear surfaces contain more capillaries, and more heat can be released. - Instead of and, I think so that or allowing more heat to be released would be better
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 00:27, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
African bush elephants live in the hottest climates, and thus have the largest ear flaps.[53] - It's sort of unclear what you mean here. Do you mean that they live in the exclusively hottest climates? Or (as I suspect) that of all elephants they live in the hottest climates? A tweak is needed.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 00:27, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Trunk:
  • Why is olfaction not simply linked to the existing Wikipedia article?
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 00:27, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
General:
I'm trying to fix a few nbsp issues. It's not working. :/ Nice work. ceranthor 23:25, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Which ones? LittleJerry (talk) 01:07, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing major! Looks fine to me. ceranthor 02:37, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments by Cwmhiraeth A nice, well-written article. A few points I noticed: Cwmhiraeth (talk) 07:40, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • There is overuse of the word species in the opening paragraph.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:10, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Elephants are intelligent, and have been compared to primates and cetacean in this regard." - "cetacean" should be plural.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:10, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the Dwarf Species section, there is overuse of "on islands".
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:10, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "With its trunk, an elephant can reach food at heights up to 7 m (23 ft) and deep into mud or sand for water." - this sentence is unsatisfactory.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:10, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "It is caused by the degradation of the peripheral nerves and muscles; beginning at the tip." - I don't think this needs a semicolon.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:10, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The chewing teeth are replaced six times in an typical elephant's lifetime." - not "an" here
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:10, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Female Asians have very small tusks, or they are absent altogether, a condition that also occurs in males." - I think that the statement about males should be qualified by the word "some".
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:10, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "After bathing, the elephant will usually use its trunk to blow dust on its body, which bakes creating a new protective coat." - I don't think "bakes" is the best word here, and I think there should be a comma after it anyway.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:10, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Elephants have difficulty releasing heat through the skin because of their low surface-area-to-volume ratio. The ratio of an elephant's mass to the surface area of its skin is many times that of a human." - perhaps combine these sentences so as not to need to repeat "ratio".
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:10, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • The next sentence has two uses of the word "expose".
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:10, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • I find the image "Walking" very distracting.
I think its the best image for the section. LittleJerry (talk) 20:10, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • While they may doze off while standing, elephants usually sleep laying down." - I would use "lying down" here.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:10, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The majority of an elephant's intake goes undigested despite the process lasting up to a day" - Perhaps you should mention "food intake" here.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:10, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Both males and family groups have restricted daily movements, moving 10–20 km (6–12 mi)" - I think this could be better phrased.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:10, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "... are led by the eldest female, or matriarch.[89] The matriarch remains leader of the group ..." - two matriarchs in close proximity.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 02:49, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the Social organisation section, the first paragraph appears to be about African elephants but does not say so explicitly.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:10, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • As he ages, a male begins to spend more time at the edge of his group and associates with outside males or even strange families" - two things about this sentence. "As he ages" implies getting old and I don't think this is what you mean and "strange" implies peculiar, again not your intention.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:10, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • The word "group" is used too frequently in the third paragraph of this section.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:10, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Bulls achieve reproductive success through mate-guarding, which involves a male tending to an oestrous female and defending her from other males." - I question the use of the word "tending" here.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:10, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Musth appears to signal to females the condition of the male, as weak or injured males do not have normal musths.[101] Musth bulls thus have more reproductive success." - too many "musth"s in close proximity.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:10, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "or young females, the approach of an older bull can be intimidating, so her relatives stay nearby for support and reassurance." - maybe substitute "to provide" for "for".
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:10, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the third paragraph of the Lifecycle section (which incidentally my spell checker does not like), there is a mixing of singular and plural sentences.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:10, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Individuals greet one another by stroking or wrapping around each other's trunks." - I think this needs rephrasing.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:10, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Entwining trunks are also made during mild competition." - ditto.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:10, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The postcopulatory call, a loud call, is produced by an oestrous cow, mostly after mating." - Maybe "A loud postcopulatory call may be made by an oestrous cow after mating."
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:10, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Seismic waveforms produced by locomotion appear to travel at distances of up to 32 km (20 mi) ..." - leave out the "at".
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:10, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the Status section, I think the brief Asian elephant part should have a separate paragraph.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:10, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • " Hunting for ivory was blamed for the African elephant population decline" - it would be useful to have an indication of what period this is referring to.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:10, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Around the same time, Kenya had its ivory stocks burned" - this sounds like a passive not an active action.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 20:10, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • All the above comments have been attended to and I now support this candidacy. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:32, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. This is an excellent article. Axl ¤ [Talk] 11:48, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments. Pretty good article, but would greatly benefit from a line-by-line prose and MoS review. I've reviewed to the end of the subsection "Threats"; will have more comments later. Sasata (talk) 18:07, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Consider my comments below resolved. I had another read through, and made some additional corrections on my own, but have run out of things to nitpick. I'd support this on criteria 1a, d, e; 2.a, b, c; 4. I haven't systematically verified the references (checked a few in passing and they were fine), nor have I performed a check for comprehensiveness (the literature is just too vast and mammals aren't my speciality), but from a layperson's prespective, the article contains everything I'd be looking for. Sasata (talk) 17:12, 8 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I just had a quick readthrough, and either I missed a whole bunch of stuff in my first review, or there has been some sloppy editing in the interim, but there's errors scattered throughout, so I can no longer support on prose. I may try to copyedit but time is precious; please note I'm not opposing – it's not terribly bad, and should should be fixable by someone willing to walk through the text with a fine-tooth comb. Sasata (talk) 02:19, 22 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "However, recent evidence suggests" terms like "recent" should be avoided as they can become outdated
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Elephants are scattered throughout sub-Saharan Africa, South and Southeast Asia." missing "and"?
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • possibly useful links: dominance, empathy, poached, habitat destruction
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • link Latin, Greek (should that be Ancient Greek?), Medieval French
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "but from the time of Herodotus on," could be worded better
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Loxodonta, the genus name" -> generic name
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • link clade
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • classifed->classified
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • link molar, sister taxa, subspecies, type
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • italicize National Geographic magazine
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The African elephant was first classified by German naturalist Johann Friedrich Blumenbach in 1797 as Elephas africana." not classified, but named
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • link taxonomic
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and originated in Africa; spreading to every continent except for Australia and Antarctica." think a comma works better than a semicolon
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "including the Indian subcontinent, China, the southeast and Japan." southeast Asia?
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "developed shorter mandibles which shifted the head's" comma before "which"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "By contrast, small mammals such as rodents develop gigantism in these conditions." develop->developed?
I think it still happens today. LittleJerry (talk) 20:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Elephas falconeri of Malta and Sicily was only 1 m (3 ft)." tall?
Yes. LittleJerry (talk) 20:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • link field of vision
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "which allowing more heat to be released into the environment." fix
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Out of all the elephants" -> "Of all the elephants"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The ear has some adaptations for seismic hearing; an enlarged middle ear[53] and a unique sphincter-like muscle around the ear canal which constricts the passageway and allows for more acute hearing of seismic signals." semicolon doesn't work, which->that
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the trunk moves by decisively coordinated muscle contractions." why "decisively"?
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "an elephant can reach thing at heights" fix
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "reaching over 3 m (10 ft),[62] however the tusks of males tend to be thicker." however->but
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "with more hair than than" fix
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "blow dust on its body which drys up" which->that
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "low surface-area-to-volume ratio which is" comma before which
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In 2011, scientists at the Royal Veterinary College discovered that elephants have a sesamoid, an extra "toe" similar in placement to a giant panda's extra "thumb"." I find it hard to believe that this feature remained unknown until 2011; any extra details about this?
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the heart rate is faster when lying down, at a rate of 8 to 10 beats per minute faster." "at a rate of"->"about"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "most of its air though the trunk" though->through
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • link temporal gland, snowline (our article has it as two words), browsing, grazing, ungulate, germination,
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "the more likely she'll be an" avoid contractions in formal prose
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Musth appears to signal to females the condition of the male, as weak or injured males do not have normal ones." normal what?
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Play behavior in calves-> behaviour
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 20:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Gestation in elephant typically lasts" fix
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:03, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Births tend to take place during the rains." I think "wet season" is more elegant than "the rains" (also, link on first occurrence)
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:03, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "A longer pregnancy period is maintained" longer than what?
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 05:03, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "For the first few days, the mother is intolerant of the other herd members being near her young."
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:03, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Alloparenting—where a calf is cared for by someone other than its mother—is known to exist in some family groups." "is known to exist" -> "exists"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:03, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "These allomothers are typically two to 12 years old and will help watch over the young calf." last half of sentence is redundant, it was said shortly before
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:03, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "mother for nutrition after which, it begins to forage" remove comma
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:03, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • caption: "Elephant touching each other's mouths which is a form of greeting." awkward
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:03, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Older elephants use trunk-slaps, kicks or shoving" shoving->shoves to keeps the verb form constant
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:03, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "When the herd is on the move" "on the move" is idiomatic
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 05:03, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "most well-known is the trumpet" no hyphen required
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:03, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • link unmodulated
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:03, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Contact calls are soft, unmodulated sounds made by individuals which have been separated from their group, which may be responded to with a "contact answer" call, which starts out loud, but becomes softer." 3 "whiles" makes for a poor sentence construction
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:03, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "distinctive, low-pulsated rumble" what is low? the frequency? volume?
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:03, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • there's some duplication of material between the "Ears" and "Communications" subsections
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 05:03, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "several different infrasonic call" calls
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:03, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "increasing by an average annual rate of 4.0% per year." redundant (annual=per year)
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:03, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Annotations were given to Botswana …" what's an annotation?
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 05:03, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • link sport hunting
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:03, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "ban on ivory which went" which->that
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:03, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • caption: "Current distribution of elephants" avoid using "current"; maybe just give the year
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:04, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • I noticed the article frequently (and conspicuously) uses the noun + "ing" construction with "being", which I don't think is optimal prose (i.e. criterion 1a: "of a professional standard"). Please have a look at [2] for a general discussion on the construct, and see if you can reword the instances in the article.
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:03, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Elephants have been working animals at least since the" ->since at least
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 18:17, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "but since 1950, tranquillisers are used as an alternative as they"-> have been used as they
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 18:17, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Elephants perform tasks, including …" "Elephants perform tasks such as…"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 18:17, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "While the training of elephants into working animals is usually done with Asian elephants, this practice has been used in Africa as well." -> "Asian elephants are more commonly trained to be working animals, although the practice has also been used in Africa."
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 18:17, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Since then, elephants have been used in agriculture, forestry and tourism." They weren't used in agriculture or forestry before then? Does this sentence refer to only African elephant usage?
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 18:17, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In northern Thailand, elephants are involved in the production of Black Ivory coffee." "Involved in" is a pretty bland summary of what they actually do … a few more words about their special role would certainly be of interest.
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 18:17, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Around 1,200 Asian and 700 African elephants are kept in zoos and circuses." as of when?
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 18:17, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Most African elephants in zoological gardens are the bush elephants."
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 18:17, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • can we pipe "bloody arena battles" to gladiator (or similar)?
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 18:17, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Elephants and other animals have been recorded displaying stereotypical behaviours.[139] In the case of elephants," maybe delete the mention to other animals and keep the focus on the article subject here
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 18:17, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "humans which have been" which->that
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 18:17, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "damaged homes in villages after cullings were done in the 1970s and 1980s."
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 18:17, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "regularly come into villages" come into->enter
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 18:17, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Purportedly drunk elephants raided Indian village again" fix
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 18:17, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • link Tunisia, ancient Roman, mosaic
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 18:17, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Elephants have been the subject of religious beliefs. The Mbuti people believe that the souls of their dead ancestors resided in elephants.[151] Similar beliefs existed among other African tribes, who believed" too many "beliefs/believe"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 18:17, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "One of the most important Hindu deities, the elephant-headed Ganesha, is considered to be on par with the supreme gods of the Hindu triumvirate." "considered to be on par" sounds awkward; is there a link to Hindu triumvirate?
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 18:17, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • remove the fullstops from the non-full sentence captions in this section
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 18:17, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • see if you can trim the See also list by incorporating links into the article
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 18:17, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • please reduce the number of "suggests" (currently 4 in short succession) at the end of the 1st paragraph of "Taxonomy"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 03:06, 4 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • should audit the article for unnecessary instances of "also", a commonly overused word; here's a few that can be safely removed without affecting meaning (there's more, these are just samples):
  • "A dwarf form of Stegodon is also known to have existed in Java." (Neither a dwarf form of Stegodon nor Java are mentioned immediately before, so "also" isn't needed)
  • "This can occur naturally when the pinnae are still, but the animal can also force this effect by flapping them." (take "also" out, means the same)
  • "They also serve as weapons when fighting"
  • "Forest elephants mainly live in equatorial forests, but will also enter gallery forests and ecotones …"
  • "They can also enlarge waterholes when they bathe… "
  • "Elephants can also have a negative impact on ecosystems."
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 03:06, 4 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "DNA studies done in 2001 and 2007 also suggested" they weren't "done" in those years, they were published
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 03:06, 4 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • double periods in #1, 2, 132
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:48, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • short-form format different in refs #3, #8, #13, #62, #125 than others (missing comma)
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:48, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Debruyne et al. (2003) available as PDF here; include doi; the "b" of cytochrome b needs to be italicized (also in ref #10)
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:48, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • please ensure journal article titles are consistently sentence case (e.g. #10) or title case (#11) – check throughout
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:48, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • retrieval dates not required for print sources, or PDF (e.g. ref #16)
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:48, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • ref #19 (Shoshani 2005) - complete book title not given
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:48, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • ref #27 (Ishida et al. 2011) need period in "S.-O."
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:48, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • J. Shoshani linked twice in refs, once is enough, and I think the link would be better in the bibliography section where it is more prominent
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:48, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • please update the IUCN reference, it's now at version 2012.2 (1st confirm that it stills supports whatever it cites)
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:48, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • missing semicolon separator in #34 (Shoshani et al. 2006)
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:48, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • missing spaces in author initials, refs #43, #112, #114
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:48, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • clicking the linked article title in ref #44 (Tikhonov et al. 2003) leads to a museum homepage–not useful
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:48, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • ref #46: give the author (Chalearmchat Somgrid), and more info in the publisher field (Department of Companion Animal and Wildlife Clinics

Faculty of Veterinary Medicine, Chiang Mai University) to help readers assess source reliability; same with #48

Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:48, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • add author & date to #70 (ScienceMag.org)
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:48, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • refs #71, 113, 116 missing issue#
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:48, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • ref #83 (Campos-Arceiz et al. 2012) needs full page range
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:48, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • fix punctuation in #89
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:48, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • ref #111 p.->pp.
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:48, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • ref #123 (IUCN): source says it's version 2012.2, not 2010.4
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:48, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • ref #134 author listed as "Wylie (Shoshani)"; perhaps Wylie (2000) is a better disambiguator?
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:48, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • ref #136 missing period
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:48, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • ref #143 pp. -> p.
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 05:48, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments reads nicely but I have a few comments:

  • can you add something about the etymology of the name in non-european languages like indian or chinese?
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 01:06, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
How about Indian (or other languages where elephants actually live)? Nergaal (talk) 20:04, 8 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Sanskrit is an Indian language. LittleJerry (talk) 19:07, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I was actually thinking of Hindi. Nergaal (talk) 18:59, 10 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Added. LittleJerry (talk) 01:46, 11 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • it would be nice to have a svg comparing the subspecies (to an average human)
Don't have it. LittleJerry (talk) 00:09, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
File:Elephantidae-scale.svg. Nergaal (talk) 06:30, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I prefer the images as they are now. LittleJerry (talk) 16:57, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Loxodonta and Elephas are not clearly introduced/described before their first usage in the text
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 00:09, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • type is redlined
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 00:09, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "t there by the Sultan of Sulu from Java" around when?
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 00:09, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 00:09, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • the long gestation period needs some kind of explanation since is among the longest of all mammals (I am pretty sure it has to do with the complexity of the trunk)
Added. LittleJerry (talk) 00:40, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Right now the article says "it is related to this" without actually explaining anything as to why exactly that is. Nergaal (talk) 09:10, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The article clearly states that the long pregnancy gives the fetus more time to develop. So I don't understand what you're talking about. LittleJerry (talk) 21:31, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • internal location of sexual organs is an indication of the aquatic origin of the ancestors (which also needs to be pointed out in the evolution section)
It is. LittleJerry (talk) 00:09, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I am missing where is this discussed in the text. Nergaal (talk) 20:04, 8 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
At the beginning of the "Evolution and extinct relatives" subsection, it mentions that early proboscideans were aquatic.
What I was trying to say is that of the common mammals, elephants are one of the few with internal sexual organs, which is in turn because of their origin in aquatic mammals. I would like the article to explicitly state that the internal location of the sexual organs is a direct result of this ancestry. Nergaal (talk) 18:59, 10 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Added. LittleJerry (talk) 01:46, 11 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • longevity: elephants are among the longest living mammals; I think it should also be mentioned in the intro
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 19:57, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
but it is not actualy stated in the body of the article. 09:10, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
Done. My sources don;t state explicitly that they have the longest lifespans. LittleJerry (talk) 17:58, 8 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps mention Lin Wang? Nergaal (talk) 20:04, 8 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 00:17, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • do the rest of the teeth have a different composition from ivory?
Yes. LittleJerry (talk) 00:09, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think the article does not make that clear Nergaal (talk) 06:21, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree. Since were're specifying what the tusks are made up and not the others, that shows that they are different. LittleJerry (talk) 20:02, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nope, it is not clearly implied. the article should not make the reader guess what it is trying to say. Nergaal (talk) 09:10, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nevermind, they are nearly the same but the tusks are unique in their cross section.
  • "to natural selection for shorter tusks" isn't it artificial selection?
Its called natural selection by the source. The people aren't purposefully trying to make the tusks smaller and are not involved in the actual breeding. LittleJerry (talk) 00:09, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • " low surface-area-to-volume ratio, which is many times that of a human." you mean many times smaller?
Yes. LittleJerry (talk) 00:19, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • a sentence on the mamooth's skin/har would be appropiate
This article is on modern elephants. LittleJerry (talk) 00:09, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "This may be due to their low predation pressures in comparison with other herbivores" not sure what this sentence is saying
They are not preyed on as much. LittleJerry (talk) 00:09, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
And how does this result in a high load of parasites? Nergaal (talk) 06:21, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 19:57, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, so why do elephants have relatively high load of parasites (also, by load it means types or numbers per individual?) Nergaal (talk) 09:10, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 21:31, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • " the largest of which numbered up to 144 individuals" needs citation
[92] is the citation. LittleJerry (talk) 00:09, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Repeat the citation also right after the 144 number since as of now comes a few sentences later. Nergaal (talk) 06:21, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 19:57, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • " Homosexual behaviour is common and frequent in both sexes." can this be expanded?
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 01:38, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • flyswatters needs wikilinking
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 00:09, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • is elephant meat consumed by humans?
I don't have any information on that. LittleJerry (talk) 00:09, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
first google hit: [3]. Nergaal (talk) 09:10, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The article already states that elephants are hunted for their meat and the link you posted is just fluff. LittleJerry (talk) 21:31, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • isn't the elephant dung coffee the most expensive in the world?
Why is this relevent? LittleJerry (talk) 16:57, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Can you add Black Ivory coffee in the see also then? Nergaal (talk) 20:04, 8 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Its already in the article. LittleJerry (talk) 00:17, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "an enemy soldier and toss him to their rider" is confusing
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 00:09, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The animals were important in battle; however, they were not used as much as horse-drawn chariots by either the Pandavas or Kauravas. " there is something wrong with this sentence
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 00:09, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Elephants were historically kept for display in t" this paragraph has too many details especially about North America. Trim some of the fluff down since it is not that relevant to this article
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 00:09, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • the Circus poster image needs a "ca. 1900" addition
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 00:09, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • the "Cultural depictions" needs a brief discussion of depiction of mammoths in prehistory
Again, this article is on modern elephants. LittleJerry (talk) 00:09, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Nergaal (talk) 23:15, 27 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

But that map clearly shows the dramatic reduction in their habitat in one century, which makes it perfect for the conservation status. Nergaal (talk) 20:06, 8 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It's still in German and the current maps are sourced to the IUCN and seem more accurate with the current range. LittleJerry (talk) 00:22, 9 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Can you update the ref for the African one to: http://maps.iucnredlist.org/map.html?id=12392
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 03:39, 14 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I prefer the images the way they are now. In particular, the maps are of better quality and focus more on each range. LittleJerry (talk) 16:57, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I disagree completely when it comes to: File:Elefants comparative anatomy.png.Until I saw the image I did not actually clearly understand the differences between the two from just reading the text. Nergaal (talk) 09:10, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Added. LittleJerry (talk) 21:43, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support based on content for such a complex article. Nergaal (talk) 03:18, 14 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Review by SandyGeorgia[edit]

  • Oppose on 1a, prose. I selected a random section well into the article, where I found:

    Elephants have been working animals at least since the Indus Valley Civilization and continue to be used in modern times, with 13,000–16,500 working elephants employed in Asia.

    Missing "as of" date on the number of elephants in Asia.

    These animals are typically captured from the wild when they are 10–20 years old, which is when they can be trained quickly and easily, and have a longer working life.

    They are typically captured from the wild when they are 10–20 years old, which is when they can be trained quickly and easily, and (will) have a longer working life.

    They were traditionally captured with traps and lassos, but since 1950, tranquillisers are used instead, being potentially less harsh.

    Switch in tense, "have been used", instead is implied, redundant, "being" ... ???

    People who work with elephants are known as mahouts.

    Why do we need that definition? It's never used again in the article, and is off-topic here.

    Elephants perform various tasks, including hauling loads into remote areas, moving logs out of forests and into onto trucks, transporting tourists around national parks, pulling goods on wagons and leading religious processions.

    That is one random paragraph; if that is indicative of the rest of the prose, an independent copyedit is needed for redundancies at least, and unnecessary word padding and awkward phrasing.

    There are 17 instances of the word "however"; however is overused and almost always unnecessary. [4] and [5]

    "At Aberdare National Park, Kenya, a rhino attacked an elephant calf and was subsequently killed by the other elephants in the group." It certainly couldn't have been killed before the attack by the other elephants; misuse of "subsequently".

    What does this sentence mean and why is it in the article? More unnecessary padding (summary style from main article): "Experts on elephant warfare were said to be from indigenous tribes." So what? Why is this article padded up with that text.

    At almost 11,000 words, the sample above indicates the prose can be tightened, and the article can probably be shortened. Please do not fix only the samples I've given and then expect me to analyze another section: a thorough review is needed. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:04, 29 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I fixed all the problems you listed. Sasata is in the middle of a prose/MoS review. Much of the text you looked at, he hasn't got to yet. LittleJerry (talk) 03:27, 29 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I see no contribs from Sasata in the article history, so I'm unclear what you are referring to. And, if Sasata is cleaning up the article, and prose deficiencies are obvious, why are there five supports here? I hope Sasata is able to trim the repetitive and off-topic text and tighten up the article. Please ping me when he is done, and I will recheck another section (fixing the examples I mentioned above is not sufficient to remove my Oppose-- the whole article needs to be copyedited). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:26, 29 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Sandy, I started a prose/MoS check up above. There's still lots to work through. As to why there's five supports ... not sure. Sasata (talk) 19:25, 29 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
They support it by looking at other aspects of it. LittleJerry (talk) 05:53, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Best I can tell, none of the five supports are qualified as to which aspects were examined-- they are all full supports, even though significant work is still being done on the article, and deficiencies are still apparent. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 06:33, 7 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Revisit:

  • Many images are facing off the text ... can they be juggled so that the elephants or their trunks are always facing the text? I believe the intent of the MOS guideline applies to animals as well as people.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 01:17, 18 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • To see if prose has improved, I sampled one random section, "Threats". I'm concerned about flow and how the text is bouncing around from topic to topic, with no logical sense I can discern to the paragraphs. We have some basics of the ivory trade, discussion of a ban, para break followed by more discussion of the economic effects of the ban, but that same para then goes in to several killing incidents, then back to poaching for meat and hides (all in same para); then the third paragraph covers other threats, which seems to be where the poaching for meat and hides belongs, and all three paras contain some basic trade info. Why not a para covering basics, a para covering the ban and its economic effects, a para covering the killing incidents, and a para covering all other threats? There's no logical flow I can discern, which gives the reading a flavor of having been built by multiple editors from multiple sources, and making it hard for the reader unfamiliar with the text to follow ... in other words, it doesn't flow easily. There are also some prose infelicities ... the reference to unemployment confuses the later reference to "local healthy populations" (elephants or people), the sentence about forest elephant ivory being more valuable than bush elephant ivory is inserted in a way/place that makes no sense, and why is it more valuable, anyway? I don't feel this is yet FA quality prose. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:54, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed the problems. It should now flow better. I also fixed potential flow problems in other subsections. In case you find any more problem I've added list it for copyediting. LittleJerry (talk) 00:49, 18 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It appears that the copy-editor's guild isn't responding, so I did more re-arranging based on your apparent standards for flow. LittleJerry (talk) 02:47, 19 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Second re-visit Why is there a commons link mid-article? Those belong in external links. I still find issues everywhere I look.

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 00:24, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  1. four- to six-week follicular phase and an eight- to 10-week luteal phase
    Why the switch from spelled-out numbers to a digit for 10?
    Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 00:24, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  2. "advertise her sexual condition"? I think we can do better than that in mating.
    changed to ..."to signal her readiness to mate" ...Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:29, 22 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  3. A bull will follow a potential mate and assess her condition with the flehmen response, as in many mammal species.
    As in many mammal species doesn't work, and why must the reader click on a link to understand what this sentence is talking about (flehmen response).
    Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 00:24, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Skipping further down to another section, more of same:

  1. These allomothers are typically two to 12 years old. ...
    Two to 12?
    Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 00:24, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Gestation in elephants typically lasts 18–23 months ...
    A five-month variation? Depending perhaps on species or something? Confusing.
    Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 00:24, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Alloparenting—where a calf is cared for by someone other than its mother—takes place in some family groups. A mother may have a younger female helper known as an allomother. These allomothers are typically two to 12 years old.
    Here we have alloparenting defined twice in two sentences ... all could be merged, smoothed out to one sentence.
    Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 00:24, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Random samples only. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:52, 22 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Struck my oppose, as I see John and Cas have both done some copyediting (although it appears John may not be done). I'm sorry I don't have time for a more thorough follow-up! IMO, with tighter wording, more redundancy reducing, and better use of summary style, articles like this can and should be under 9,000 words. Good luck, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 08:16, 29 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Image check[edit]

Image check - all OK (problem image removed) - 1 issue. Checking for copyright, as the earlier check seemed focussed on the MOS aspects: most all images are OK (own work, Flickr with CC-license, some old images, CC PLOS). Sources and authors provided. There is one problem though:

  • File:Ele-brain.png lacks clear authorship and/or source information. It may be a -great- own work, or it is scanned and collected from some old books (where the copyright situation and source should be clarified). As the original uploader is connected with a possible sock account (AristoDoga, not Zoofari to be clear), clarification is probably impossible ==> suggest removal and request for deletion. GermanJoe (talk) 09:29, 8 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Removed image. LittleJerry (talk) 17:31, 8 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
OK thanks, have updated status accordingly - and requested deletion for both image versions at WP:FFD. GermanJoe (talk) 19:37, 8 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Dubious images deleted. GermanJoe (talk) 07:46, 16 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment In case you wonder about indefinite semiprotection: whenever we unprotect it, Wikiality vandalism resumes; there's no practical solution. Nyttend (talk) 16:11, 8 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by 99of9[edit]

  • The lead paragraph has two sentences about ears, but they're not together, separated by one about tusks.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 02:18, 10 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • This sentence is too lengthy for its information content: "Elephants are used as working animals in both Asia and Africa and are employed for a numbers of tasks."
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 02:18, 10 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Elephas would diversifydiversified into new species in Asia"?
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 02:18, 10 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "During the Late Pleistocene, the majority of proboscidean species went extinct." Obvious question: Why? And why did modern elephants survive?
Added. LittleJerry (talk) 02:18, 10 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "experienced several evolutionary trends, such as an increase in size..." Again what drove this? This seems important since size is a key characteristic of elephants.
Will get to. LittleJerry (talk) 02:18, 10 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Added. LittleJerry (talk) 00:24, 11 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
--99of9 (talk) 00:33, 10 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thanks for addressing my concerns. I think the breadth of coverage is great now. --99of9 (talk) 00:37, 11 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments - (finally) getting some time to read through now. I'll make straightforward copyedits as I go and jot notes below: Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:59, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
They are the only surviving proboscideans, although several extinct species have been identified... - err, if we're counting all extinct members of the Proboscidea...that's alot more than "several". Not sure if we can get a number, or even "many" would be better.....
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 17:13, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
including the elephants' close relatives, the mammoths... - also a problem as mammoths are close relatives of Indian but not so much African...., maybe just loset the "close relative" descriptor here....
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 17:13, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
African elephants have larger ears and concave backs while Asian elephants have smaller ears and a convex back. - last bit is singular after all plural....needs to be aligned.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 17:13, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Dispute exists as to whether the extinct Mammuthus was more closely related to Loxodonta or Elephas... - "dispute" to me implies acrimony. I don't recall any in this debate -I think I'd use "There is debate over the relationship of the extinct Mammuthus to Loxodonta and Elephas..." or somesuch.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 17:13, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Successful conservation efforts in certain areas have led to large elephant population densities. - say either "large numbers" or "high population densities"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 03:51, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
As of 2008, numbers (and local densities) are controlled by contraception or translocation. - maybe just "local numbers"
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 03:51, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
although this may be a "crude guess" - rephrase without quote - maybe "estimate may vary wildly" "loose estimate"..or something.
Done. LittleJerry (talk) 03:51, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
For the first few days, the newborn stumbles and falls, - why not "is unsteady on its feet"?
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 02:04, 23 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Cautious support on comprehensiveness and prose - I've been through it all once and read bits over-I don't see any deal-breaker prose clangers outstanding....looking okay. Some folks still might find some issues and I might have another read-through....Casliber (talk · contribs) 07:45, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Cryptic C62 · Talk 00:18, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • "Hunting for ivory was blamed for the African elephant population decline in the late 20th century." [6] This phrasing suggests that the ivory trade was the only cause for population decline, but this source mentions several times that elephant meat was a significant factor in poaching.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 01:34, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Elephants were considered formidable instruments of war." When? This whole paragraph is written in the past tense without ever giving a time frame.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 01:34, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "...and later Indian kingdoms used war elephants extensively" It's not clear to me if the entire paragraph is about India, or just this snippet. I'm particularly confused by "The Arthashastra advised the king", as it leaves me wondering "Which king?"
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 01:34, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Which government? --Cryptic C62 · Talk 19:34, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Added. LittleJerry (talk) 00:16, 18 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The Achaemenid Empire (between the 6th and 4nd centuries BCE) also used war elephants and Alexander the Great was able to train his foot soldiers to injure the animals and cause them to panic during wars with both the Persians and Indians." There are too many details being crammed into one sentence without using any commas which makes it hard to follow.
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 01:34, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Since then, war elephants were employed throughout the Mediterranean and North Africa." And when did this practice end? Or is it still happening today (which seems a bit unlikely)?
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 01:34, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • "As of 2003, around 1,200 Asian and 700 African elephants are kept in zoos and circuses." The next reference after this claim is Ref 139, Tuttle, which is presumably the same Tuttle who contributed to Shoshani 2000. So how would a book published in 2000 have a claim that is accurate as of 2003?
Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 01:34, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Source Spot Check

  • Ref 1 - substantiated
  • Ref 10 - substantiated, but not sure this is a reference of quality
  • Ref 16 - substantiated
  • Ref 31 - substantiated
  • Ref 45 - substantiated
  • Ref 62 - substantiated
  • Ref 73 - substantiated
  • Ref 79 - substantiated
  • Ref 95 - substantiated
  • Ref 118 - substantiated
The content here looks impeccably sourced and cited. Nice work! As long as prose issues identified above have been addressed, I offer my support. - Lemurbaby (talk) 22:01, 18 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks and I removed the Elephant.se website as a reference. LittleJerry (talk) 23:10, 18 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Review by John[edit]

It looks mainly ok at second glance but this is mainly a place holder to let you know I am working on it and my review is pending.--John (talk) 01:48, 26 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Tks John -- at your earliest if you could pls so we can try and button it up soonest... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 16:14, 26 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Tentative support per my recent edits here; these were mainly standardising on British/commonwealth spellings, minor tweaks, and strengthening the case for elephants' tusks getting smaller, as "may" definitely didn't do this justice. It's looking good, and my support is only tentative because I worry that I was able to find so many spelling errors and infelicitous wordings this far into the FAC process. I'd still like to see a good copy-editor look it over if possible. --John (talk) 18:23, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • John: I think you are the good copy-editor! Sasata (talk) 18:28, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I agree it is a hard one...overall it's looking better each time....it's just such a big article. I will try and read through again. Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:00, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delegate comments -- Given the time this review has been open and the resulting level of commentary, the fact that there are no longer any objections, and my own scan revealing no obvious concerns (it's rare that I don't feel the need to at least tweak the lead in a FAC nom) I think it's time to promote. It's been a -- dare I say it - mammoth effort on behalf of the nominator and the reviewers, and I thank you all. I note John's and Cas' "tentative" and "cautious" support, respectively, but the consensus to promote seems clear, and if anyone is still keen to spend a little more time refining prose, then I believe that can safely occur away from this forum. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 13:14, 30 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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