Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Australasian gannet/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 12 February 2019 [1].

Australasian gannet[edit]

Nominator(s): Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:00, 11 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I buffed this article in a fit of patriotic pride after northern gannet was promoted to Featured status. I reckon it is within striking distance of FA-hood. have at it. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:00, 11 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sabine's Sunbird's comments Support[edit]

Structurally, why are displays split off from breeding by feeding, when the two are closely linked (the displays relate to breeding)?

moved display material into breeding section Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:56, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

As an Aussie and a Kiwi, I'm complaining and not complaining about the difference in detail re: colonies in the lead. Why detailed Kiwi colonies (like a third of the whole lead) and no Aussie ones?

largest aussie ones added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:01, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Also why is breeding only summarised as being about coloniality in the lead? And no summary of displays

added now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:24, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The head is yellow, in lead I'd say tinged in buff yellow

tweaked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:58, 11 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No indication of general range in lead, only breeding sites

whoops! now added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:13, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In the migration section it simply describes the movements of NZ birds - is anything known about Australian birds?

I don't recall seeing anything but will look again. The NZ ones appear to have been much better studied overall... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:13, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Some indication of what this involves (location of these obscure islands or distance from Oz) would contextualise this
Sorry, the above comment is in relation to this section which I somehow didn't include Far-wandering gannets are occasional visitors to Marion Island and the Crozet Islands, . Sabine's Sunbird talk 23:18, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

~~ah ok. was pondering this~~..annoyingly HANZAB doesn't elaborate and many of the vagrant mentions are rather obscure articles I am having trouble tracking down..... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:43, 14 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It's enough to state that they're in the Southern Indian Ocean! Sabine's Sunbird talk 19:13, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:31, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Though implied, start Gannet pairs may remain together over several seasons, until one member dies, although they have been known t with a statement re: their monogamy, ie Gannet pairs form monogamous and long term bonds, and pairs may....

done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:13, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This is generally good, with just the lead needing some work, will do more later. Sabine's Sunbird talk 19:53, 11 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Would be nice to have an image in the breeding section, so I uploaded one of mine here that you can use. Or there are others of chicks and nests. Sabine's Sunbird talk 23:16, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

great! thanks! added... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:43, 14 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Sabine's Sunbird: finding sources for clarifying the distance proving elusive - anything else to add or any other ideas? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:07, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Sabine's Sunbird: are you satisfied all your points are addressed or discussed? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:42, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

More comments

The lead structure doesn't follow the structure of the article. Example lead has feeding before colonies and breeding, in article it is after. I'm not going to insist it does, but maybe it should.

reordered Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:48, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The lead still has no information about anything about breeding after the point of breeding displays. Given that over a half of the second paragraph is about breeding colony locations - I think the lead still needs a good rethink. For a lead Nesting takes place in colonies along the coastlines of New Zealand, Victoria and Tasmania—mostly on offshore islands, although there are several mainland colonies in both countries. is sufficient for colonies, then focus on behaviour.

specific colonies removed, breeding info added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:48, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The young birds fledge 95–109 days after hatching, before heading to a nearby clifftop and remaining there for anywhere from 6 hours to 3 days before flying. I don't think the before in this sentence is necessary

removed Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:48, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Unlike young northern gannets, juvenile Australasian gannets are beginning to fly by the time they fledge and have fully grown primary flight feathers.:"Are able to fly" is probably better than "are beginning to fly" which is a rather odd construction

tweaked Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:21, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

They may dive from 1–2 m (3-7 ft) above the surface at an angle in water less than 3 m (10 ft) deep or in rough weather. This is a very specific set of criteria - how far can they dive from if the water is calm and deep? I'm pretty sure I've seen them dive from a height greater than a man!

tweaked to clarify - the preceding sentence gives usual height (up to 20 m) - that is just for shallow water or rough. Hope it is clearer now Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:21, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The pilchard (Sardinops sagax) is a popular prey item; Australasian gannets switched to anchovy (Engraulis australis) at Farewell Spit in 1996 and barracouta (Thyrsites atun) in Port Phillip Bay in 1998 after pilchard mass mortality events I think I know what this is trying to say but isn't quite managing it. Popular isn't the same as favoured, and the bit about prey switching follows uncomfortably from the pilchard statement. Are there any studies that show prey selection or composition, or effects of prey switching on breeding success in pilchard die-off years? Sabine's Sunbird talk 19:41, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

neither study recorded an impact on gannet breeding success and gannets were described as "flexible". Have added the energy rationale. There was a mass mortality event in 1995 though the cause is unclear. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:21, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, Support now. Sabine's Sunbird talk 07:16, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

thx Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:22, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support by Squeamish Ossifrage[edit]

Mostly looking at sources and especially reference formatting:

Is it worth mentioning records of vagrancy in the discussion of its range? I know it has been reported from Brazil and southern Africa, and the IUCN Red List page suggests that a vagrant breeding population may have been present in South Africa at some point in the past?

added South Africa mention. Brazil not mentioned in HANZAB...will search Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:36, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There has to be more to say about the gannet in culture than one line about the Maori using them as a food source. Traditional use for the feathers, maybe? Art? Heck, appearance on postage stamps if you have to.

I know! I have been frustrated by the lack of cultural material on it. I will look further. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:20, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe use the "relationship with humans" section header instead and find something on the tourism of Cape Kidnappers? Sabine's Sunbird talk 00:28, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

that is a very good idea - I couldn't find any reliable sources with gannet stamps from an initial look.... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:01, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Give me a few days, I bet I can come up with something there. Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 02:13, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Here's one starting point - Te Ara mentions Maori use for food, the bones for tattooing implements and feathers for decoration. Nurg (talk) 23:31, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Aaah, choice bro'! Duly added :))) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:05, 13 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

As promised. The gannets' presence on New Zealand stamps is easy to source because the New Zealand post has one of the most collector-friendly websites of any nation in the world. The Cape Kidnappers gannet colony has appeared at least twice: in 1958 and 2009. I'm still hunting for a RS for gannets on the stamps of Norfolk Island; I don't have a Scott Catalogue immediately on hand at the moment or I'd just cook up a citation there. Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 15:15, 14 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

cool! will add! The irony being the main sulid I see on Norfolk Island is the masked booby rather than the Australasian gannet... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:13, 14 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The Australian Biological Resources Study source is formatted like a citation to a book, but seems to be a citation to a website? There's either missing bibliographic information here (if this is a book), or the wrong sort of bibliographic information (if this is a web cite).

I removed the location as surplus - otherwise is using the cite web format. Not sure what else you feel is surplus to needs Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 04:21, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This looks better. Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 15:15, 14 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

OCLC for Gray 1843?

err, how would I find that? I have never used them before and google isn't coming up with anything... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:08, 13 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

OCLC 457835439 for the edition that was used to make that scan. Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 15:15, 14 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

For the Nelson source, I'm pretty sure it's okay to just have Oxford University Press as the publisher; this longer form strikes me as nonstandard.

done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:09, 13 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

For the Ismar source, Miskelly is an editor, not the publisher.

Corrected. Nurg (talk) 21:12, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The Angel et al. source is missing bibliographic information. Specifically, PLoS One gives that citation as volume 10, number 12, page e0142653, doi 10.1371/journal.pone.0142653

has been added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:12, 13 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

For the Stephenson 2007 source, this seems to be web-only material. Or at least being cited that way. So I don't think it needs a publication location. If this is actually a print-form report just being linked to an online copy, is there a report number, ISSN, doi, or any other sort of identifying value to aid in locating copies?

changed to web format - no book identifiers found Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:17, 13 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The Parks Victoria source is missing the apostrophe in "Pope's".

added. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:35, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Frost 2017 needs some sort of publication information to indicate why this is a reliable source.

added. an NZ gov't publication under the auspices of the Department of Conservation Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 04:26, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The "Fake gannets" article isn't actually bylined to the "Department of Conservation". Instead of the current approach, it's probably more accurate to have no author, and make the publisher be "New Zealand Department of Conservation". Or something along those lines.

tweaked. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 04:27, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This looks like it might have something to add about breeding?

yes and added. I'd seen this somewhere else but Nelson puts it nice and succinctly this time. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:44, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This has a little blurb about gannet flight physics that might not be sufficient to make the cut?

yes this is good too and added. Just pondering if and where to add the bit about rising air currents assisting with lift... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:09, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In general, I'm a bit surprised to see only two book-format sources for a well-studied, widely-recognized bird species. That doesn't mean this isn't a comprehensive review of literature, though. Was there nothing important to add beyond what the current sources already handle?

HANZAB and Nelson are by far the two most detailed book sources. Other than that there are lots of guidebooks, but actually alot of journal papers cover the information better. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 07:08, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Most of this looks pretty good. I've got a bunch of minor quibbles about reference formats that don't affect the overall article quality. But that Culture section is so thin that it really stands out. Clearly, I'm not asking for one of the insipid "in popular culture" sections of old, but... there's assuredly a happy median to be found. Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 22:34, 11 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Moving to support here. I went ahead and added the OCLC to Gray 1843. I hope you don't mind. Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 20:46, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Aa77zz[edit]

This article is in good shape and I can find little to quibble about that hasn't already been mentioned.

Description: link Cape gannet and masked booby

done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 22:55, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Breeding and courtship: 73.15 grams - this is unnecessarily precise -> 73.2 is more than adequate.

done Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 22:55, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

- Aa77zz (talk) 09:26, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support Well done. - Aa77zz (talk) 09:38, 13 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

thx! Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:55, 13 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support and comments from Jim[edit]

Like the previous reviewer, I can't find much amiss with this. I note that if someone writes a GA or FA for Cape Gannet, we'll have a Featured Topic! To show I've read it, a few quibbles follow Jimfbleak - talk to me? 13:48, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

solan goose.—I'm surprised that a term long obsolete in the UK appears to be still current in Oz, which is what the sentence implies

this is frustrating as the term is still bandied about in texts (but no-one ever calls it that). I've not seen it tagged as such. Will see if I can find so I can avoid OR... Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:21, 13 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Breeding season is generally from July to February — to a Brit, starting with "The..." would be more natural

added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:21, 13 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The Maori were reported to have harvested young gannets for food—the source implies this was mainly before European colonisation, if that's the case, perhaps add that.

it's not clear when it stopped, but it does appear to be historical Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:21, 13 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Image review - since this already seems to be getting the necessary support, I'll give an image review. The licensing and sources of the present images are good, but I will give some suggestions for additional images below. FunkMonk (talk) 14:32, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

the other images don't specify "commercial use allowed" so I'd have to ask..? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:29, 13 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You mean the others I linked? They are all Commons compatible, I specifically searched for commercial licences on Flickr, and the Flickr upload bot will accept them automatically. If an image isn't compatible, the bot just doesn't upload them. FunkMonk (talk) 13:32, 13 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

ok @FunkMonk: so flickr upload bot stopped in 2014, so I found Flickr-to-Commons but I can't make it work now.....not sure if I am missing something Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 11:28, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I think the new way (which I use) is just following the link at the bottom here:[2] FunkMonk (talk) 11:47, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You should definitely show the chick, here is a good photo of one being fed:[3]

added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:27, 13 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Since the breeding section is empty, you could show what appears to be rival males:[4]
A closer look at a colony which could maybe be an additional image in the colony section:[5] or this of an interesting colony cliff:[6]
I personally think this is a better photo of a flying individual:[7]
For flavour maybe, an adult grabbing nesting material:[8]
As an additional comment, I see some duplinks... FunkMonk (talk) 14:53, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

problem is, duplink tool does not distinguish between lead and body of text (though I did find and remove one) Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:31, 13 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe you are using the old version, the new one does:[9] FunkMonk (talk) 13:33, 13 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

aaah thanks for thatCas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:06, 13 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

Suggest adding alt text. Nikkimaria (talk) 19:32, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

alt text now added Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 21:19, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support, but also have a question[edit]

"One clutch of a single pale blue egg is laid yearly..."

Can a single egg be a clutch? I thought clutch meant multiple eggs.Moriori (talk) 21:38, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

looking at google, it suggests 'yes' Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:21, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Ian Rose (talk) 08:18, 12 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.