Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Archie Jackson

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted 01:51, 21 January 2008.

Archie Jackson[edit]

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I'm nominating this article for featured article because ... it is a well written and comprehensive article that meets the featured article criteria. The article has had a thorough copy-edit, is fully referenced with inline citations and a wide range of appropriate images given the lifetime of the subject.

Jackson became ill and died at the peak of his career while still very young. This being the case, there is the temptation to lean towards hagiography when writing about him. I think we have managed to avoid this. Having said that, it is true that some observers at the time thought he was a better batsman than his contemporary Don Bradman and it is interesting, if not quite encyclopaedic to speculate on what might have been. Mattinbgn\talk 12:06, 3 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Support by Dweller

*Comment "He died at the age of 23, the youngest Australian Test cricketer to do so." is awkward English and a rather contrived and minor statistic for the Lead anyway. Why not run on the previous sentence with "and died aged just 23." or similar? --Dweller (talk) 16:18, 3 January 2008 (UTC) [reply]

  •  Done Agreed, a little clumsy. Thanks. -- Mattinbgn\talk 21:38, 3 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I've now read the entire article and have a few issues. I'll fix some and bring one or two back here. --Dweller (talk) 10:08, 4 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "first grade" needs to be wikilinked.
    •  Done
  • "Jackson and McDonald" - any connection to Jackson's family?
    •  Done No connection, this is specifically stated in Frith. I have included a note to this effect, but will consider adding to the main body of the article if others feel strongly about this.
  • first reference to the Victoria team needs to be wikilinked.
    •  Done

More to follow --Dweller (talk) 10:22, 4 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note: I have changed "Jackson and McDonald" to "Jackson & McDonald" to agree with the source material. Keep the suggestions coming! -- Mattinbgn\talk 11:59, 4 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • the arthur mailey story is nice. for those unfamiliar with sydney, it'd be good to know if it's a distance of ten yards, ten miles or somewhere in between! --Dweller (talk) 12:34, 4 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • It wasn't far, the Sun building was on Elizabeth St (Note: The Sun is now defunct), adjacent to Martin Place. The distance would not have been more than half a mile and probably less, but without knowing exactly where Kippax's store was located, I can't be more accurate than that. Any ideas? -- Mattinbgn\talk 13:12, 4 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • How about footnoting an approximate distance of <0.5 miles? --Dweller (talk) 13:17, 4 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • presumably the Test trial preceded Bradman's selection (and Jackson's omission) in 28-29, yet it's written the other way round --Dweller (talk) 16:17, 7 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Done Of course it was, now moved as part of a rewrite of the paragraph.
  • article implies that in that series Australia selected Jackson because they lost the Ashes. Now, I know what you mean, but you've not really explained it. --Dweller (talk) 16:18, 7 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Done Now rewritten. Let me know if this still reads like causation.
  • Jackson "was limp". Odd choice of wording. Is that a quote? If so, quote marks please. Otherwise, perhaps "felt faint" or similar?

--Dweller (talk) 16:20, 7 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • "limp" is the word used by Frith. I think it describes more than just faintness, but implies physical weakness as well. Will think on a suitable word.
  • No, don't bother. I agree with your assertion that it implies more than faintness. If it's Frith's word, use it - and put it in quote marks?--Dweller (talk) 22:14, 7 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think I have a quote from Hunter Hendry I can use that may be better than quoting Frith. It doesn't use the word "limp" but does describe Jackson's appearance and condition from a eyewitness viewpoint. Currenty otherwise occupied but will get to it later today -- Mattinbgn\talk 22:24, 7 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Done now. Let me know if you think it needs refining. It turns out it does use "limp".-- Mattinbgn\talk 02:45, 8 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Jackson made no verbal reply, but hit the first ball from Larwood..." verbal reply is curious, but I understand what you mean, but how about "Jackson made no reply, but responded by hitting..." In the second half of the sentence, was this the first ball of the session, or some overs later when Larwood eventually bowled? If the former, word it "Jackson made no reply but responded by hitting the next ball..." --Dweller (talk) 16:27, 7 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Done I was trying to say that the shot was his reply to Bradman, but you are right, "verbal reply" sounds a little tautological. Your version is a big improvement and I have used it.
  • I've added 2 hidden comments and 2 cn tags --Dweller (talk) 16:30, 7 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Done Removed one unsupported claim, added a cite for the other. Re-wrote the claim about the young 1930 team using a new source. -- Mattinbgn\talk 07:59, 8 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • What kind of haemorrhage killed him? Brain (ie stroke)? --Dweller (talk) 16:50, 7 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • The source (Frith) doesn't specify. Given that he had previously been coughing blood, I would assume the haemorrhage was into his lungs, but it would be an assumption. -- Mattinbgn\talk 21:57, 7 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm done now. --Dweller (talk) 16:54, 7 January 2008 (UTC) By the way, this is an excellent article and I'll be happy to support when we're done with the above. --Dweller (talk) 22:14, 7 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think I have them all now. Thanks for the comments. -- Mattinbgn\talk 07:59, 8 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Thanks for dealing with all my quibbles. This is a FA quality article. Kudos to the creators. --Dweller (talk) 12:20, 8 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments—Needs further scrutiny for MOS and 1a, but this is much better written than previous Austr. cricket articles. Nice work overall, but I can't yet support.
  • Thanks, but much of the credit for the writing belongs to the main copy-editor, not me -- Mattinbgn\talk 15:14, 4 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Caption: "The 1930 Australian touring team. Jackson is second from the left in the back row"—Full sentence at end; needs final period. MOS breach right at the start: read about en dashes.
    •  Done Space now added either side on en dash between birth and death details. A search did not find any others.
    • Lead spoilt by: "Ignoring medical advice, Jackson returned to cricket with a local team but his health continued to deteriorate and died aged just 23." His health died? "at the age of just" would be nicer. "... ; however, his health ..."
    •  Done Reworded along the lines of your suggestion, a big improvement
    • "Prior to"—a pet hate of mine; "before"?
    •  Done All replaced, and I can't blame the copy-editor for those. I use 'prior to' to mean 'before' all the time and never considered it much before. Once again, 'before' is much better
    • "he had success"? Probably need to reword for more specific meaning.
    •  Done Added details on success, giving a specific score is clearer than "he made runs against..."
    • Clumsy: "His Test and first-class career coincided with the early playing years of Don Bradman, to whom he was often compared, some observers rating Jackson as the better batsman before they toured with the 1930 Australian team." --> "His Test and first-class career coincided with the early playing years of Don Bradman, to whom he was often compared; some observers rated Jackson as the better batsman before they toured with the 1930 Australian team." But still, the observers rated before the tour, or referred retrospectively to that period? (I'm too lazy to look at your references.) And does "they" refer to the observers? No, but needs to be clear. Tony (talk) 13:43, 4 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    •  Done reworded, but it is late here and I will have another look after I have had a sleep. Won't mark it off yet. Re-read it again, I think it is sufficiently clear now, but further suggestions are welcome. -- Mattinbgn\talk 08:04, 8 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your comments and suggestions; they have been very useful and have improved the article significantly. Cheers, Mattinbgn\talk 15:14, 4 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thanks for attending to those random examples, but I see little evidence that the text as a whole has been improved. I took a sample half-way down; the first sentence I saw was this: "Jackson was included for the 1930 tour squad, a relatively inexperienced team with only four players returning to England from the tour four years prior." Should that be "included in"? "Prior" is a dreadful way of ending a sentence. A little later, "Illness to Ponsford"—very odd preposition. It needs a word-nerd to go through the whole article properly. Someone who's unfamiliar with the text. Locate by searching the edit history page of similar articles—see edit summaries for people who did the copy-editing grunt work. Tony (talk) 11:30, 10 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I have re-written the sentence you mention above. It was a recently added sentence, included in response to Dweller's concerns. I am aware this will not lead you to support this article. I will see about getting someone to take a look at it as suggested. Thanks again, Mattinbgn\talk 12:03, 11 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments a very good read and quite tragic really. Some things I noticed...
    • Team mate or Teammate?
    •  Done, neither, "team-mate"; adopted from usage at Sid Barnes, the most recent cricket FA.
    • Cigarette card caption could be made more friendly!
    •  Done, hopefully a little friendlier.
    • Debut with or without an accent?
    •  Done. Settled on début with an accent. This is used in Sid Barnes, the most recent cricket FA. "debut" is still used in the infobox and in the notes section where it is included in the title of a source. Does this need a general discussion as an MOS issue?
    • Not wishing to be too nit-picky but isn't one stone 6.4kg when correctly rounded?
    •  Done 6.35029318 kg to be exact. :-) Fixed now.
    • "...daring declarations..." this needs explanation really.
    •  Done, I think. Please let me know what you think
    • "The tour was a financial success, but exhausting." a little odd for me. Financially successful to Jackson or everyone? Exhausting for Jackson or everyone?
    •  Done. with a quotation. Frith says "...most of them were exhausted." but the quote sums up Jackson's feelings about the tour, despite his success.
    • Ref [23] (Roebuck) is missing an en-dash separator.
    •  Done, nbsp instead of ndash. Serves me right for editing at 1.00 in the morning
  • Thanks for taking the time to review. My comments are listed above. -- Mattinbgn\talk 00:51, 15 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support good work, all my comments dealt with. As for debut, not sure. It's a general MOS issue which we don't really need to solve here, just as long as we're consistent throughout the article. Well done. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:47, 15 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support good work. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 22:57, 17 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
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