Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/23 Wall Street/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was archived by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 10 November 2022 [1].

23 Wall Street[edit]

Nominator(s): Epicgenius (talk) 23:43, 15 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about a building in Manhattan, New York City, which served as the headquarters of J.P. Morgan & Co. from 1914 to 1988. Though only four stories tall, the "House of Morgan" has been described in The New York Times as one of "the big little buildings of Wall Street". 23 Wall Street's marble and masonry facade still bears scars from the 1920 Wall Street bombing, just one of several indications of the building's long history. In recent years, 23 Wall Street has sat largely empty, despite several plans for its redevelopment. Nonetheless, its architecture is widely admired, to the extent that it was one of the first buildings to be designated as official New York City landmarks in 1965.

This page was promoted as a Good Article almost two years ago after a Good Article review by JBchrch, for which I am very grateful. In addition, the page received a GOCE copyedit last year from Twofingered Typist, who is unfortunately no longer with us, but whose efforts I also appreciate. I think it's up to FA quality now, and I look forward to all comments and feedback. Epicgenius (talk) 23:43, 15 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

  • File:23_Wall_Street_(1914).jpg: how do we know this was copyrighted in 1914? The LOC label is "created/published". Ditto File:Service-pnp-det-4a10000-4a13000-4a13500-4a13508v.jpg
  • File:Wall_Street_by_Paul_Strand,_1915.jpg: this image is tagged as life+70, but the creator's date of death is given as 1976. This will also need a US tag. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:47, 17 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thanks for the image review. I've added a US tag to File:Wall_Street_by_Paul_Strand,_1915.jpg, clarified that File:23_Wall_Street_(1914).jpg was created/published in 1914, and clarified that File:Service-pnp-det-4a10000-4a13000-4a13500-4a13508v.jpg was created/published by 1906 at the latest. All three images are in the public domain in the US, where they were created. Epicgenius (talk) 16:15, 17 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
      • Noted, but that doesn't mean we should leave an obviously incorrect life+70 tag in place.
      • Where was File:Wall_Street_by_Paul_Strand,_1915.jpg first published? For the other two, how do we know that "created/published" means published, and not just created? Nikkimaria (talk) 01:34, 18 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
        • I have removed the life+70 tag from File:Wall Street by Paul Strand, 1915.jpg.
          I am trying to figure out the exact publications where these images appeared. For File:Service-pnp-det-4a10000-4a13000-4a13500-4a13508v.jpg, the copyright claimant was the Detroit Publishing Co., which went bankrupt in 1924 and was dissolved in 1932. I think the picture may have been a standalone photograph. The status of the Strand picture is quite weird, as the Philadelphia Museum of Art website implies that the photograph is still copyrighted, so I'll remove it. – Epicgenius (talk) 14:02, 18 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
          • I have removed all three images now. Epicgenius (talk) 14:53, 21 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
            "Wall Street" was certainly exhibited in 1917, in the Wanamaker competition. I think it you just found a reproduction of its from 1927 or before you'd be good.--Wehwalt (talk) 09:31, 28 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Wehwalt[edit]

  • "also known as the J.P. Morgan & Co. Building)" Just a niggle but wouldn't it be better known as the J.P. Morgan Building? The "& Co" is not commonly used".
  • "23 Wall Street replaced the Drexel Building, which was the banking headquarters for J.P. Morgan & Co. predecessor Drexel, Morgan & Co. The Wall Street bombing in 1920 damaged it, however, J.P. Morgan & Co. did not remove the shrapnel marks in defiance to the bombing's perpetrators." You might make it clearer that the building damaged was 23 Wall Street not the Drexel. Also, I might say "repair the exterior damage" instead of "remove the shrapnel marks"
    • I've reworded this. The sentence was grammatically incorrect before, anyway, which I didn't realize until you made this comment. Epicgenius (talk) 16:34, 3 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • You refer to "The Corner" twice in successive subsections, stating that one entrance was known as that and also the whole building. Is this an inconsistency?
    • The NY Times referred to the main entrance as the Corner but that the nickname generally applied to the entire building. I cannot find other sources saying that only the main entrance was known as the Corner, so I changed it. Epicgenius (talk) 16:34, 3 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • You refer to the marble as both Knoxville marble and Tennessee marble.
    • I've changed it to "Tennessee marble" throughout. J.P. Morgan & Co. used a quarry in Knoxville, Tennessee, a fact already mentioned above. Epicgenius (talk) 16:34, 3 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Decorating the other side was Hiawatha, a mythological character depicting agriculture and arts." Is Hiawatha a "mythological character depicting agriculture and arts"? Our article doesn't seem to lean that way.
    • I also made some changes here, as the carving of Hiawatha was intended to depict agriculture and arts, not that the character itself was meant to do so. Epicgenius (talk) 16:34, 3 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • You refer to J.P. Morgan's private office. Is it proper to describe it that way as he likely never occupied it, given his date of death?
    • I just realized that I forgot to clarify that it was J.P. Morgan Jr. (also known as Jack) who was largely involved in the building's construction. I've done that throughout the article now. This office was Jack Morgan's office, not his father. Epicgenius (talk) 16:34, 3 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "23 Wall Street had no name plaque on its facade," You've told us this. Can the prose be tweaked to recognize that the reader already knows this?
  • Could the Wall Street bombing description be put in some kind of active voice? Saying that it occurred outside doesn't entirely satisfy.
  • It's ambiguous as to whether the 1929-30 planned additions were in fact built?
That's it.--Wehwalt (talk) 06:04, 28 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I did not see this until now. I'll fix these tomorrow. – Epicgenius (talk) 03:49, 3 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Wehwalt: Thanks for the comments. I have now addressed all of the issues you've brought up. Epicgenius (talk) 16:34, 3 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support--Wehwalt (talk) 12:57, 6 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinator comment[edit]

Three weeks in and this nomination has just the single general review and is yet to pick up a general support. Unless it makes significant further progress towards a consensus to promote over the next three or four days I am afraid that it is liable to be archived. Gog the Mild (talk) 22:04, 5 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Sorry, but I am timing this one out. The usual two-week hiatus will apply.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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