- President of Japan (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (XfD|restore)
no valid reason for deletion. There are many arguments for keeping, see discussion. --Privybst (talk) 05:41, 13 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Closer's comment. Wow, that was a quick trip straight to DR without even asking the closer a question first. Consensus is not simply about the number of !votes, although in this case the clear majority preferred to delete. However, consensus is also not about the sheer number of arguments. It has to do with the quality of the arguments. Respondents wanted to delete because, among other things, it was misleading. The DAB page claimed that "President of Japan" could refer to things that it does not. As one commenter noted, it imposed American systems on non-Americans. Are you going to create a "Major of Japan" page? Are you going to create a "CEO of Japan" page? "Grand Duke of Japan"? The delete !votes had number and their arguments had weight. Doczilla @SUPERHEROLOGIST 05:58, 13 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- This was that particular DAB's entire content.
- President of Japan may refer to:
- ==See also==
- That's it. Doczilla @SUPERHEROLOGIST 06:12, 13 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- @Doczilla I'm sorry I didn't write to you first. This is the first time I'm asking for a deletion review. Privybst (talk) 08:45, 13 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Overturn to no consensus While it's clear there is a desire to change the current article, there are some really compelling WP:ATD arguments in the discussion; a redirect to the mentioned Manga series seems to be a minimum reasonable outcome. I'd like to see the original DAB page as it was nominated, but this appears a classic case of a lot of people with weak arguments vs. a small cadre of people who see it a very different, and policy-based, way. Jclemens (talk) 06:03, 13 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Overturn to no consensus. Fascinating to read
it imposed American systems on non-Americans as a reason for deletion when that is literally what our entire rōmaji title system on English Wikipedia actually does. But to this specific matter, the closer does not seem to take into account what purpose dab/redirect pages serve. For example, we often create redirects of incorrect spellings or alternate transliterations of titles. The purpose of those is not to make an ontological declaration of the superiority of those alternatives. It's to make it easier for people who already don't know something (like, that's why they're looking it up) to actually find something useful among our existing articles. Arguments that don't take this basic fact about the purpose of dab/redirects into account should carry no weight in the assessment of whether or not to delete a dab/redirect. The only open question was whether the dab/redirect possibilities were plausible, which was addressed by Dekimasu's citations to reliable sources referring to Japan's "president" when they meant "prime minister", and the identification of a literally similar article titled "The President of Japan". Taking issue with the formatting is an editing dispute, not a valid reason to (close as) delete. Indignant Flamingo (talk) 07:26, 13 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Overturn to no consensus. I do not usually participate in these and can't remember the last time I closed a deletion discussion, but it is somewhat disconcerting to see the closer argue that the close was based on the quality of the arguments, since no policy in favor of deletion was cited with the exception of one reference to all of WP:D. Just a few points: the first two delete !votes came before I removed the emperor from the page, at a time when neither the manga nor the actual President of the House of Councillors (valid entries) had been listed. Among the delete !votes that came after the improvements, the first called my response "extremely technical" (does that mean policy- and guideline-based?), and the second did not appear to be related to reasons for keeping or deleting dabs and redirects. It is only the third delete vote that is really in question here: "per WP:D it does not disambiguate and users are unlikely to need this dab to navigate." It was never explained what might lead one to think "it does not disambiguate", but the keep !votes described why the page was performing the work of disambiguation and thus I would not read this discussion as consensus to delete. (As an aside, please do mention things to closers first when possible.) Dekimasuよ! 08:37, 13 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for the aside, in the future if I want to open a deletion review I'll write to closer first. Privybst (talk) 08:47, 13 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Overturn to no consensus the "delete" votes have a slight majority but there are no solid policy-based reasons for delete. Meanwhile the "keep" votes correctly point out that this DAB page allows for a somewhat common misconception (that there is a "president" of Japan) and allows users to find the leader(s) of Japan's government. I would be open to relisting as well, but I don't see any arguments being made in the next week that weren't already made. Frank Anchor 13:40, 13 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Overturn to No Consensus as per Frank Anchor and Dekimasu. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:56, 16 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse I see a consensus which the closer respected. I also ivoted delete in the AfD. Lightburst (talk) 23:31, 19 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse. There are arguments for a redirect as an ATD, but that was discussed in the AfD and did not gain consensus. DRV is not AfD round two: we are not here to discuss ATDs, but only to determine whether consensus was correctly assessed. In my view, it was: the arguments for keeping this as a dab page were weak. Sandstein 07:26, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Overturn. The arguments for delete are very significantly weaker than the policy based arguments for keeping or disambiguating. It's worth noting that several redirects like this have been discussed at RfD recently and have not been deleted there. Thryduulf (talk) 14:44, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Overturn to keep (or no consensus) especially given how it was pointed out that a manga called "(The) President of Japan" existed and several media outlets who actually erroneously referred to Shinzo Abe as a president. The Keepers very well demonstrated that the dab page would be helpful for others, while the deletion rationale "implausible as Japan has no president, everybody knows that!" was ripped apart as baseless with evidence. It does not matter if Japan does not in fact have a president if it is demonstrated that some people legitimately mistake some Japanese politicians as presidents. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 13:48, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Overturn to NC The keep arguments, at the end at least, were stronger and the the numbers aren't enough to overcome that. But nor were the keep arguments so strong that we can get to keep. Hobit (talk) 15:58, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Someone searching for President of Japan is probably a young person who needs pointing to a basic article about the political structure of Japan. They are vanishingly unlikely to be looking for a comic book.—S Marshall T/C 19:53, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Overturn to no consensus. Both delete and keep !voters presented not unreasonable and policy-based arguments. While delete !voters did slightly outnumber !keep ones (5:3 by my count), that's hardly consensus, especially since 3 of the 5 did not engage with the keep arguments on the role of DAB. (That's not a criticism of them, just that it makes it harder to see a consensus to delete!) Martinp (talk) 13:22, 27 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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