Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 September 28

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September 28[edit]

Category:Amputee sportspeople[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 October 6#Category:Amputee sportspeople

Category:Vibraphonists by nationality[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete the two classical categories, following the consensus about their parent at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2022_October_6#Category:Classical_vibraphonists; no consensus on the others. Note that the sole Hungarian classical vibraphonist is already categorised in both parent hierarchies (vibraphonist and classical musician), so no merge is needed in that case. This close is no bar to an early re-nomination for merger, but if so the multiple merge targets should be listed in full, not left for the closer to compile. – Fayenatic London 13:07, 19 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Permanent small categories as a result of WP:Overcategorization that will only ever have a handful of entries. Why? I Ask (talk) 00:07, 20 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • But you are proposing to delete classical vibraphone category too, further up this page. Some merging needs to take place in order to avoid that articles are completely removed from the tree of vibraphonists, or from the tree of any other current parent categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:17, 20 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Is there a tool that can help me see what players are not already in the parent category? Why? I Ask (talk) 20:19, 20 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The last one" in the nomination is Category:American vibraphonists with many dozens of articles. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:43, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, and why do you oppose merging American jazz vibraphonists into American vibraphonists? Per my points above, the members of the parent category could all reasonably be placed into the subcat rendering it moot. Why? I Ask (talk) 19:49, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am opposing merging American jazz vibraphonists into American vibraphonists as long as we have not settled the discussion about Category:Jazz vibraphonists elsewhere. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:43, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    For now, would you be fine with the rest of the proposed changes? I can withdraw the American jazz upmerge and make that a separate discussion. However, I still think it's pretty obvious that the other categories aren't worth keeping. Why? I Ask (talk) 23:52, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
So you would support an up merge of all listed? I'd be fine with that. Why? I Ask (talk) 21:38, 20 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:29, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Yes, I am alright with merging all except the Americans (answering the question from before the relisting). Marcocapelle (talk) 05:34, 29 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Why? I Ask, Is there a tool that can help me see what players are not already in the parent category? - yes, WP:PETSCAN.
— Qwerfjkltalk 20:13, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Oculi, are you okay with upmerging? — Qwerfjkltalk 20:19, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Populated places by raion in Ukraine[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 October 6#Populated places by raion in Ukraine

Category:Y: The Last Man[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Delete Timrollpickering (talk) 11:25, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Too little content and well-interlinked. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 00:24, 20 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:27, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Classical vibraphonists[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 October 6#Category:Classical vibraphonists

Category:Dancers with a physical disability[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 20:18, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale:
  1. I see no reason why physical disabilities need to be categorized separately from other disabilities.
  2. In the category name it should be disabilities in the plural, not a disability in the singular.

Animal lover |666| 03:59, 20 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support Grammatical number agreement is a must, and we do not have any other subcategories that are intersection of occupation + type of disability. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 04:57, 20 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • This was opposed for speedy processing by User:Dodger67. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:34, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks for the ping Marcocapelle. My oppose is based on the fact that physically integrated dance is a concept which relates specifically to dancers with physical disabilities as distinct from blind, deaf, or intellectually disabled dancers. This distinction should be maintained in the relevant categories as this is a case where there should be subcategories (similar to such categories for disabled athletes). Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 20:23, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Question to Roger (Dodger67): even so, the main category there is Category:Sportspeople with disabilities, and while there are sub-categories for a few specific forms of disability e.g. amputees, there is not one for Sportspeople with physical disabilities. (There is one for "limb difference" but it currently only contains amputees.) Can you find a stronger precedent or rationale? – Fayenatic London 14:14, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:21, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support I understand the distinction made by Roger in the opposed speedy, but this change represents a broadening of scope to any dancer with a disability, which is currently how it is used. No opposition to the creation of a further category for Category:Physically integrated dance performers but seems a little niche given the parent is currently only at 8 articles. SFB 19:25, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:French architecture outside France[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: manual merge. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 20:20, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Is there non-colonial French architecture outside France? Privybst (talk) 07:10, 20 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Selectively merge, in fact a number of articles are about buildings in a "French style" but that seems subjective. Marcocapelle (talk) 12:42, 20 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: Firle Place in UK, Keōua Hale in Hawaii (etc) imitate French style but are not in former French colonies. Statue of Liberty was a gift from France to another non-colony. I don't think it would be appropriate to categorise these as colonial architecture. – Fayenatic London 21:53, 20 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:21, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support - It seems that I agree with Marcocapelle, inasmuch that I too don't think that "French style" is a thing (I know it's not). So, if there are articles which don't include some other kind of buildings, facilities, etc., which obviously do not belong into "colonial" cat, those should be moved to "French buildings and constructions" or even create a category "French buildings and constructions outside France" if such do not exists yet. (There is a term used historically - French work / Opus Francigenum - it was used to identify Gothic architecture, most characteristic for medieval France; even earlier, very characteristic for France, from where it spread as a distinct style, was First Romanesque arch or Lombard Romanesque arch. These are all very distinct styles and typical for France, but they are not named French even when we colloquially say French Gothic arch, it is still just Gothic style in arch. This means that there is no recognized and defined French Arch per se, because architecture is all style and style is all arch.)--౪ Santa ౪99° 19:53, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Santasa99 So presumably, for the examples I gave above, you would advocate removing Firle Place from the French hierarchy as merely using Caen stone to look like a French chateau; whereas Keōua Hale can rightly be moved into a sub-cat, Category:Second Empire architecture. What about Statue of Liberty – that's indirectly within French sculpture (by sculptor), but would you remove it from the French architecture hierarchy? – Fayenatic London 20:17, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
      I see little bit of explaining in the article, it says: "The external cladding of the building is Georgian, using Caen Stone to make it look like a classical French Chateau." This means that arch is Georgan style, type is French Chateau. With K-Hale is less clear - when I was in school, some 30yrs.ago, this was explicitly called French Baroque Revival, now I see several synonymous refed in article, including Second Empire style. I checked little bit further and found that that particular building's arch style is eclasticism in its fullest. Statue, I would keep it within arch only if our arch tree was about style only - she is neoclassical style, that's it - it's not French architecture, it's a French construction, it's a neoclassical sculpture done by French sculptor. I know it's not much, I am not giving you straight answers, but I really think we have messed up with conflating architecture with construction, and we now have a problem differentiating between two. I know this much - we should have (sub?)category French Baroque Revival, and top cat Architecture in France, but certainly not French architecture, French architecture outside France, etc. ౪ Santa ౪99° 21:27, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
      I meant Georgan style, and type of the building is French Chateau. I noticed in all our earlier encounters that we agreed on almost everything if not absolutely everything, so I wouldn't mind if this ends as you propose, trusting that you could make best of it under the circumstances (messed up entire tree). ౪ Santa ౪99° 10:08, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Mild support for deletion. The Corfu Liston is a landmark built by the French in the 1800s which would hardly qualify as French Colonial architecture. Same for the Rio–Antirrio Bridge, built in the 2000s. There are many buildings built by the French outside of France that are not colonial in style, but I do not think that they have much in common. Place Clichy (talk) 10:46, 3 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Changing my !vote to selective merge and delete, per User:Santasa99. – Fayenatic London 09:58, 4 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Hungarian-speaking territories[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 October 6#Category:Hungarian-speaking territories

Years in Alberta before 1905[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 October 6#Years in Alberta before 1905

People from the Ottoman Empire[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Rename all with stub category to Category:Ottoman Empire people stubs Timrollpickering (talk) 11:19, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Propose renaming
Nominator's rationale: rename per precedent in this earlier discussion. Note that a number of categories in this tree already have "from", they are not included in this nomination. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:24, 20 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 17:16, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support, including shorter name for stub category. – Fayenatic London 05:33, 30 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Professional wrestling jobbers[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Delete Timrollpickering (talk) 11:24, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: The definition of a "jobber" is not precise and ascertaining who is or is not a jobber is largely subjective, making this category unscientific. McPhail (talk) 16:04, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Not defining for many of the subject categorized, ill-defined, and possibly even a bit insulting, raising BLP issues. Just not objective enough for a category. oknazevad (talk) 16:54, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • DELETE. The word "jobber" is too subjective. One's "jobber" may be another's "star in the making". Hansen SebastianTalk 17:48, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Listify at jobber (professional wrestling). Given the potential for subjectivity and the status of jobber to vary depending on place of employment, a list can address this topic in a much better fashion than a category without context or citation. There are clear examples of professional jobbers such as Barry Horowitz and Steve Lombardi, whose careers at certain federations almost exclusively consisted of losses. There are others in this category which clearly don't meet that definition, such as Kantaro Hoshino who won a championship at the federation he is purported to have been a jobber at (which is the antithesis of a jobber). SFB 19:36, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete This category could cause a lot of issues like original research and personal commentary/analysis because the term jobber is subjective. For example, consider a wrestler's losing streak. Source A views it as jobbing, and Source B views it a part of a storyline or angle. Sometimes a losing streak is a part of long-term character development. Pro wrestling terms like "jobber" does not work as category. --Mann Mann (talk) 03:52, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per OP. Inherently a POV category.
— Czello 09:07, 4 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Competitors in athletics with limb difference[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 October 6#Category:Competitors in athletics with limb difference

Philippine media company founders[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Rename all Timrollpickering (talk) 11:23, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: The surrounding hierarchy of Filipino businesspeople uses "Filipino" throughout apart from these three. There is some ambiguity in the Company founders by nationality categories as to whether they are (in this case) Filipino founders of companies that are based anywhere, or people from anywhere who founded companies based in the Philippines. In only this case there would be a difference in wording, with the adjective Filipino used for the former, or Philippine for the latter. In these three categories, only the lower one (television) holds articles directly, and two out of six (James Lindenberg and Robert Stewart) were American expatriates, who might never have taken Filipino nationality. Even so, I would rename the lot to match the parent Filipino businesspeople, and allow for a minor degree of inaccuracy over foreign-born founders of Philippine companies.
Note: if keeping "Philippine", then Option B: rename Category:Philippine media company founders to Category:Philippine mass media company founders (disambiguating "media" to "mass media"). – Fayenatic London 12:55, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - use 'Filipino' as this is a nationality category. Oculi (talk) 14:04, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Iranian mass media company founders[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Merge Timrollpickering (talk) 11:22, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Only contains Masoud Zoohori, who is CEO of a radio network but not its founder, and founded a national darts association which is not a mass media company. I did not find any other potential members in the target category. – Fayenatic London 11:28, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Tamil-language television miniseries[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2022 October 6#Category:Tamil-language television miniseries

Category:Kentucky women singers[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge as per Oculi. (non-admin closure) Qwerfjkltalk 20:27, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: There is no category scheme for the triple intersection Category:American women singers by state. If this is kept, it should probably be non-diffusing with the singer cat, per a bunch of similar categories. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 09:29, 28 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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