Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 May 31

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May 31[edit]

Category:Friends (1994 TV series)[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: do not rename. Category:Friends will remain as a disambiguation category. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 03:45, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming Category:Friends (1994 TV series) to Category:Friends

Nominator's rationale: This show's article is just called "Friends". —ÐW^(T·C) 23:48, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Ambiguous category name, which is why there is a disambiguation page at the proposed title. –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 04:08, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per LaundryPizza03. The bare title would be massively ambiguous. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 06:14, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The above 2 sum it up. --Gonnym (talk) 18:58, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose -- If renamed it will pick up articles unrelated to the TV series. We do not italicise category names, which would be needed to match the article. Peterkingiron (talk) 14:07, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The original name is the best solution, clear without ambiguity! --Just N. (talk) 20:51, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Anglican bishops in Kenya and Uganda[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: rename. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 03:42, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Propose renaming Category:Bishops of Kirinyaga‎ to Category:Anglican bishops of Kirinyaga‎

Category:Bishops of Kirinyaga‎ to Category:Anglican bishops of Kirinyaga‎

List of 15 more in Kenya

List of 35 more in Uganda

Rationale - both the Anglican and Roman Catholic churches have many dioceses in East Africa and there is a considerable overlap in the names. Similar recent cfds for Ghana (2021 May 13#Anglican bishops in Ghana) and Nigeria (Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 May 21#Anglican bishops in Nigeria) resulted in 'rename all'. Oculi (talk) 20:52, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support all per nom, also including bishops that do not have a Catholic colleague in the same place (for consistency). I would be neutral when a whole country would have negligible Catholic presence, but that is not the case here. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:33, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- @Marcocapelle, a lot of confusion and ambiguity could be avoided if all bishop categories were named to include the denomination. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:00, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  - The Roman Catholic ones apart from Europe and some Middle East countries with millennia of Christianity are all 'Roman Catholic boos of foo'. For some Anglican ones there are even rival Anglican bishops from different persuasions. And the most famous Zimbabwean bishop, Abel Muzorewa, was actually United Methodist. And there are dozens of Lutheran bishops in East Africa, but without articles as yet. Not to mention Eastern Catholic and Orthodox ones (see https://orthodoxwiki.org/Category:Orthodoxy_in_Africa). Oculi (talk) 11:44, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support all per nom Laurel Lodged (talk) 12:31, 2 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support all -- Uganda also has Pentecostal bishops too. This change is appropriate where there are multiple denominations with bishops, but I would oppose this in most of Europe. Bishops in Spain, France, Italy and Austria will inevitably be Catholic unless otherwise indicated. In northern European countries, they will be Lutheran unless otherwise stated. In England, the Catholic Church in re-establishing an episcopacy carefully chose places where there was no Anglican see, but new diocese sometimes were for those places. Peterkingiron (talk) 14:16, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Rename per nom. --Just N. (talk) 20:52, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Wikipedia for beginners[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: delete. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 03:41, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Propose deleting Category:Wikipedia for beginners (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Nominator's rationale: Newly-created category that duplicates Category:Wikipedia basic information, only article is already in that category. Le Deluge (talk) 09:35, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Delete delete per nom. –LaundryPizza03 (d c̄) 04:09, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. –Just N. (talk) 20:53, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Local bodies in Tamil Nadu[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: merge. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 03:40, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Propose merging Category:Local bodies in Tamil Nadu to Category:Local government in Tamil Nadu

Nominator's rationale: Newly created category that effectively duplicates Category:Local government in Tamil Nadu Le Deluge (talk) 09:30, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Merge per nom. --Just N. (talk) 20:54, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Bougainvillean Roman Catholic priests[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: no consensus. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 02:09, 23 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Propose merging Category:Bougainvillean Roman Catholic priests to Category:Papua New Guinean Roman Catholic priests
Propose deleting Category:Bougainvillean priests
Propose deleting Category:Bougainvillean Christian religious leaders
Propose deleting Category:Bougainvillean Christian clergy
Propose deleting Category:Bougainvillean clergy
Propose deleting Category:Bougainvillean Roman Catholics
Propose deleting Category:Bougainvillean Christians
Propose deleting Category:Bougainvillean people by religion

Nominator's rationale: WP:NONDEF. The only article here is for John Doaninoel, (1950–2018) who is introduced as "Papua New Guinean Roman Catholic prelate and Marist priest" and was "born in Timputz, Bougainville Island". The article is already in Category:People from the Autonomous Region of Bougainville and Category:Papua New Guinean Roman Catholic priests. The rest is a long string of empty parent categories which does not bring any value for navigation. Place Clichy (talk) 08:59, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose (as creator) per WP:SMALLCAT, since it is part of an established series. Autonomous Region of Bougainville says: 'In late 2019, a non-binding independence referendum was held with 98.31% voting for independence rather than continued autonomy within Papua New Guinea'. Given that assertion of nationhood, removing Bougainville from this established series by nationality is a non-neutral act of erasure. (Obviously, I AGF that erasure was not the intent, but it is the effect).

Yeah, it crates a flurry of parent cats ... but has the nominator Place Clichy done any checks on whether this tree could be populated further? The population is 70%, and are Roman Catholic, so in the absence of evidence to the contrary, I assume scope for expansion ... and note that since the nomination was made, John Momis has been added by @Scanlan. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 06:07, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There is no question of erasure, and Category:People from the Autonomous Region of Bougainville and Category:Bougainvillean people by occupation are not even suggested in this nomination. However Bougainville is a long shot from being called a nationality, as the nationality of people there is Papua New Guinean. If you called a nationality every micro-region in the world that held a non-official independence referendum or has a semi-autonomous status or has some form of separatist movement, this would clearly open a can of worms and severely disrupt our category system.

It is more pertinent to consider Bougainville categories in regards to either Category:People from dependent territories or Category:People by ethnicity. I don't think that AR Bougainville is usually regarded as a dependent territory as defined in this article: it is a constituent part of the country's integral area and its autonomous status is not unlike those of the Aosta Valley or Tatarstan, which one would probably not call dependent territories; it is not listed either on the United Nations list of Non-Self-Governing Territories. As for ethnicity, there are conditions to be met at WP:OCEGRS and WP:EGRS both for the category itself and for the inclusion of a specific article in it, and also WP:BLPCAT in the case of living people. From these conditions, while it seems pretty straightforward that a specific Bougainvillean identity is probably defining for politicians and activists involved in the politics of the island and its separatist movement, I do not think that the combination of this identity with that of a priest is relevant to the topic, appropriate to the person's cultural context or that the combination is itself recognized as a distinct and unique cultural topic in its own right.

Specifically, for John Doaninoel, no Bougainvillean ethnic self-identification is either claimed or sourced in the article. He was merely born on the island. This is therefore extremely far from having reliable sources commonly and consistently defining the subject as a "Bougainvillean Roman Catholic priest". As for newly-added John Momis, his notability does not come in anyway from being a priest (which he was for 23 years before resigning the priesthood and getting married) but from being a politician. One could assume that, as the leader of a secessionist organisation, he would self-identify with some form of Bougainvillean ethnic identity, but the article and RS are actually discreet about this, the only information being this short statement from unknown-reliability Pacific Islands Report: Momis comes from South [...] Bougainville. I do not think therefore that the nominated category is defining for either of them, or that it is an eligible intersection per WP:OCEGRS.

As for WP:SMALLCAT (which is not my original rationale), the only series this could be a part of is Category:People by province in Papua New Guinea, which is not diffused by occupation or religion. Place Clichy (talk) 16:06, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Place Clichy: I'll start with WP:DEFININGness. Even if priestly work was not what a factor in notability, being a priest is at least as defining as having been educated at a particular university, and your nom does not propose to remove these articles from the RC priests category tree. So this nom is not about DEFININGNess; it is about we intersect that attribute with other attributes.

In this case, the priests category is a subcat of Category:Bougainvillean people by occupation, which you don't propose to delete or merge. Instead, you make a judgement that being Bougainvillean is defining in some occupations, but not in others. That argument relies on your assumption that "Bougainvillean" is an ethnic attribute, whereas the category structure and the territorial basis of that make it clear that this is a geographical category, not an ethnic one. So WP:EGRS does not apply.

Your comparison with politicians is also poor. You write that a specific Bougainvillean identity is probably defining for politicians and activists involved in the politics of the island and its separatist movement, but we have a much broader Category:Bougainvillean politicians to which that does not apply. If you actually want to tie this to notability for separatism, then Category:Bougainvillean politicians should be included in this nomination.

Similarly, your arguments about nationality clash with practice elsewhere. Your narrow definition of "nationality" would exclude Wales and hence for example Category:Welsh Roman Catholic priests. The same logic would de-categorise as "Irish" everyone in Ireland from 1800 to 1922.

So, I'm sorry, but I remain unpersuaded by any part of of your case. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 17:58, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The comparison with Wales is not valid. There is no question that Wales (and Welsh) is considered a nationality in many regards, as the name of the Six Nations Championship would for instance imply. You really cannot say the same about the Autonomous Region of Bougainville or other regions in the world with a comparable autonomous status, see the examples above of the Aosta Valley or Tatarstan. Also, if these are geographical categories rather than ethnic ones, they probably should use Fooers from (the Autonomous Region of) Bougainville rather than Bougainvillean fooers. Place Clichy (talk) 15:54, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support, I have nothing against Category:People from the Autonomous Region of Bougainville but it is not populated well enough for a large amount of diffusion. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:05, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose One of these articles clearly uses the term as a descriptor of the identity of the person. This is a used term, and this erasure is not justified.John Pack Lambert (talk) 12:47, 3 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

As noted before this does not concern an erasure. The article stays in Category:People from the Autonomous Region of Bougainville. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:28, 3 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

'Delete/Merge per nom and Marco. --Just N. (talk) 20:56, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose' - Agree with the points made by John Pack Lambert and others above. Plus, Bougainville is autonomous in its own rights and deserves distinct, even small, categories. Scanlan (talk) 22:31, 19 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Films featuring luck[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 June 8#Category:Films featuring luck

Category:Populated places associated with the Chernobyl disaster[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: delete/merge as proposed. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 03:38, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Propose Deleting Category:Populated places associated with the Chernobyl disaster

Propose Selectively Upmerging Slavutych and Vilcha, Kharkiv Oblast to Category:Aftermath of the Chernobyl disaster

Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OVERLAPCAT & WP:OCASSOC)

All but 3 of these articles are already somewhere under Category:Chernobyl Exclusion Zone‎ and Category:Polesie State Radioecological Reserve‎ so I focused on those 3 exceptions: Ivankiv is this category because it "was not as affected by the Chernobyl disaster compared to other towns" which is clearly not defining. The other two, Slavutych and Vilcha, Kharkiv Oblast, were Chernobyl relocation centers and should be kept under this tree. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:07, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Delete and selectively upmerge per nom. Congrats and good work for sorting out the meaningful content. Place Clichy (talk) 09:01, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete and selectively upmerge per nom. --Just N. (talk) 20:59, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Books associated with Gonville and Caius College, Cambridge[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was: merge. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 03:36, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Propose Dual Upmerging Category:Books associated with Gonville and Caius College, Cambridge to Category:Manuscripts in Cambridge & Category:Gonville and Caius College, Cambridge

Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:SMALLCAT)

These are all historic manuscripts in the college's special collection but there's only 3 of them without clear growth potential. No objection to recreating later if it ever reaches 5+ articles, but then the name should be Category:Manuscripts of Gonville and Caius College, Cambridge per WP:C2C. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:07, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Merge per nom. Hopelessly vague. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 06:11, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per nom and BrownHairedGirl. --Just N. (talk) 21:00, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.