Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 May 5

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May 5[edit]

Category:Indigenous people of the Circum-Caribbean[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac15 05:06, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: I'm not an expert on this, but don't these two cover the same topic? —Naddruf (talk ~ contribs) 23:38, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, nothing of the content belongs in the merge target. Category:People of Carib descent is not about indigenous people, the remainder is about Central America and the north of South America. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:18, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per Marcocapelle. On a side note, I wonder if Category:People of indigenous peoples descent should not be deleted, as it is mostly about expatriate descent from peoples considered indigenous in their region of origin, and I wonder how it can be defining to have in your ascendancy a people considered indigenous but not be indigenous yourself. Place Clichy (talk) 18:23, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Backing vocalists[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac15 02:45, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Category which was recreated in March 2020, nine months after having been deleted at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2019 June 30#Category:Backing vocalists -- but the problem remains that literally any singer who exists at all can be "lead singer" on some songs and "backup singer" on others, making this effectively an indiscriminate category for every singer who has an article to categorize. That doesn't change just because the incomplete and non-representative selection of random singers selected last time was mostly in the rock genre while this time it's mostly R&B singers -- because the singers filed here this time include Martha Wash and Luther Vandross and Merry Clayton, who are merely the three most famous names among many other artists who have certainly done some backing vocal work but have also been the primary named artist on the front cover of one or more albums in their own right. (And last time, it was Dave Grohl and David Gilmour and Paul McCartney.) When it comes to singing, backing vs. lead still isn't a useful, maintainable or defining distinction for the category system to attempt to curate. Bearcat (talk) 21:37, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
And Clydie King, Venetta Fields and Judith Hill have all also released one or more recordings of their own as lead singers in addition to their work as background singers, literally proving my point that it's a distinction failure. Bearcat (talk) 01:02, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I see your point now. Most backing vocalists end up releasing at least one single as a lead singer. I was unaware this category was previously made and deleted. What prompted me to create it was that I saw a category for session musicians. Session musicians are also just musicians but there is a category and subcategories. I saw some backing singers who aren't musicians were listed, so I made a separate category for backing vocalists. I came across quite a few articles of singers with extensive backing vocal credits for well-known bands. I figured it was a useful category especially for singers who were better known for their backing credits.--Twixister (talk) 05:19, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That sounds like WP:C2E, author request. RevelationDirect (talk) 01:15, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ultimately delete after manually emptying. The problem is that the parent "singers" is a container only category, so that the content needs to be diffused into its various subcategories. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:27, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Mass media in Puerto Rico[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: reverse merge. bibliomaniac15 02:50, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Duplicate category Mvcg66b3r (talk) 21:22, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Defunct Guam mass media[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Defunct mass media in Guam bibliomaniac15 02:51, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Consistency with main category's name Mvcg66b3r (talk) 21:18, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Defunct Puerto Rico mass media[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Defunct mass media in Puerto Rico. bibliomaniac15 02:52, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Consistency with main category's name Mvcg66b3r (talk) 21:10, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Infobox television season tracking categories[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 May 17#Infobox television season tracking categories

Category:African-American conservatism[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Black conservatism in the United States to match the article and purge biographies. I do not believe there is a consensus to create a category for the biographies like "African-American conservatives" or "African-American Republicans" from this discussion, but if someone wants to make such a category, it's up to them. bibliomaniac15 18:00, 18 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: To match the article Black conservatism in the United States - but the contents of the category is mostly biographies Rathfelder (talk) 19:50, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - by all means create a 'people' subcat, which should be Category:African-American conservatives, per Category:African-American people. Contrary to the nom's remarks there are books and other non-people in this category. Oculi (talk) 20:53, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Create subcategory per Oculi. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:30, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment -- We have frequently deleted categories designating people as "liberal" or "conservative" in the past, because this is about a POV. A person may be a conservative in one subject and liberal on another. The exception is where the criterion is membership of a party of that name. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:30, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • That is a fair point. So this would require purging the biograpies instead. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:46, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Marcocapelle: We have List of African-American Republicans, and since per WP:CATEGRS, "Remember as well, that a category is not automatically a valid substitute for a list. If the category's head article could never be anything more than a bulleted list of individuals who happen to meet the criteria, then a category is not appropriate." Classifying people by race intersected by politics will be dicey in any event - are African American Republicans different than other Republicans and is the intersection only interesting because it doesn't fit with some majoritarian mindset, which if so opens up all sorts of things like Category:Divorced Roman Catholics, Category:Christian evolutionary biologists, Category:Jewish Nazis, and such. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 17:34, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Also, not all conservatives are Republicans and we tend to only categorize folks by party when they have sought or attained some office under such party affiliation. Not every registered Republican finds themselves so categorized, because unlike in some countries "membership" in a party isn't really a thing in the US - you register and that determines in whose primary one may vote, but you have complete freedom to vote for whomever you choose in the final election regardless of which party the candidate you choose represents. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 17:37, 12 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • We should purge non-politicians, that is a necessary part of the alternative proposal indeed. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:55, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Sephardi socialists[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge and delete per nom. bibliomaniac15 02:49, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Dual upmerge to Category:Sephardi Jews. Per WP:OCEGRS, these are non-notable intersections of ethnicity and political views. User:Namiba 16:49, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge the first category to Category:Jewish socialists only (not the Sephardi parent), delete the second one. When I see this category applied to e.g. Pierre Mendès France, I think that they need a serious purge. If being Sephardic is defining for an individual, they are most probably already in another Sephardic category, which was the case for the few I checked. Place Clichy (talk) 23:55, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete politics by ethnicity/religion seems to be a WP:OCEGRS per nom; so true of the intended target. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 18:49, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Single merge / delete per PlaceClichy. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:39, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nominator. I though precisely the same when I first saw this category name, even before I knew what it was nominated for. Debresser (talk) 19:52, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:United States Virgin Islands mass media[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. bibliomaniac15 03:03, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Consistency with main article's name Mvcg66b3r (talk) 15:02, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Defunct mass media in the US Territories[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename to Category:Defunct mass media by insular area of the United States. – Fayenatic London 10:50, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Consistency with main article's name; separate categories for each territory Mvcg66b3r (talk) 14:59, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Russian folk fairy tale[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: merge. bibliomaniac15 02:43, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: The category does not state what is the difference between a fairy tale and a folk fairy tale; the parent category is already in Russian folklore; this is the only folk fairy tale category. Place Clichy (talk) 12:27, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:American Civil War nurses[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 May 17#Category:American Civil War nurses

Films by demographic audience[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2020 May 17#Films by demographic audience

Yacht clubs by English county[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: upmerge per nom. The merits of "yacht club" vs. "sailing club" may be subject to a future, more broad-ranging discussion. bibliomaniac15 03:00, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
to Category:Yacht clubs in England, Category:Sports clubs in Cornwall
to Category:Yacht clubs in England, Category:Sports clubs in Essex, Category:Coastal Essex
to Category:Yacht clubs in England, Category:Sports clubs in Hampshire
Nominator's rationale: Per WP:OCLOCATION and WP:SMALLCAT
Outside of London, there are only 39 articles in Category:Yacht clubs in England and, while some counties could grow, all of these county subcats currently have fewer than 5 articles and expanding this approach would lead to a largely anemic category tree. More importantly, breaking up this category by county seems like it would hinder rather than aid navigation for readers since yacht clubs are defined more by the coastline than the county. (I'm neutral on the London subcategory since it's a one-off that's well populated but it's tagged to give flexibility to the outcome.) - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:27, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Background We recently deleted some yacht clubs by city categories here. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:27, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Upmerge the three county ones with no prejudice against re-creation if numbers increase. PS: the "by city" categories aren't really an accurate comparison. Grutness...wha? 04:38, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. I'm not sure that either OCLOCATION nor SMALLCAT (e.g. "realistic potential for growth") apply here. I wouldn't have created these categories for this number of articles, but as they have been created I don't see a benefit in deleting them (causing watchlist noise on the articles etc). DexDor (talk) 05:43, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:02, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question, many articles in the parent category have "Sailing club" in the title rather than "Yacht club". Shouldn't the categories in this tree then also be named "Sailing clubs"? Marcocapelle (talk) 06:02, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Reply Based on the article descriptions, West Cheshire Sailing Club and Windermere Cruising Association are both recreational Category:Sailing associations not yacht clubs and there's enough to populate a separate category at the English level, although Sailing club is currently a redirect to Yacht club. Undoubtedly there are hybrids: the Junior Offshore Group races "smaller yachts", whatever that means.RevelationDirect (talk) 10:42, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@RevelationDirect: "Sailing club" and "Yacht club" are essentially synonymous. The distinction is purely terminological, with "yacht club" carrying echoes of the era of very wealthy people in blazers with paid crew, while "sailing club" is a broader and less elitist term. The trend in the last few decades has been that new cubs are usually called "sailing club". For example, the International Yacht Racing Union (IYRU) was founded in 1907; in 1996 it changed its name to the International Sailing Federation (ISAF); and in 2015, ISAF changed its name to "World Sailing".
We should probably rename all the "yacht club" categories to "sailing club".
Most sailing clubs or yacht clubs have some sort of physical base: a clubhouse with changing rooms and food/drink, and some or all of: a dinghy park, moorings an/or a marina for bigger boats, and a fleet of boats owned by the club, organising races. The "clubhouse" can be anything from a shack with a kettle, through to large and grand premises more like a posh country club. Examples at the posher end include the Howth Yacht Club, Royal Burnham Yacht Club and the San Diego Yacht Club.
The Junior Offshore Group (JOG) is a sailing club which doesn't have a clubhouse or other facilities such as moorings; it just organises offshore races, basically for boats under about 30 feet in length, which is the smallest category of boats capable of safely racing offshore.
Other prominent examples of this sailing-club without premises include the Dublin Bay Sailing Club and East Anglian Offshore Racing Association (both of which just organise races) ... and cruising-focused clubs such as Irish Cruising Club and the Cruising Club of America. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:44, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Charles Ives Prize winners[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac15 18:01, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OCAWARD)
The Charles Ives Prize is scholarship for young composers from the American Academy of Arts and Letters. (Sometimes the same award has also been used for stipends for sabbaticals for people later in their career.) I can't find too much non-Wikipedia coverage and, within the biography articles, it doesn't seem defining and usually gets a passing reference in the education section. And these articles are generally already in the alumni category for whichever conservatory/college this scholarship paid for. The contents are already listified here in the main article for any reader interested in the topic. - RevelationDirect (talk) 00:26, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
*RFC There is an open request for comments on proposed changes to WP:OCAWARD. Your input (pro/con/other) is always welcome here. -RD
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Recipients of the Leopold-Kunschak-Prize[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. bibliomaniac15 18:01, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING (WP:OCAWARD)
The Leopold Kunschak Prize is issued by the Austrian People's Party to foreign leaders including Pope Benedict XVI, Pope Benedict XVI and Jean-Claude Juncker as well as domestic activists for issues the party cares about. The recipients tend to mention the award in passing, if at all, so it's not defining. I just listified the contents of the category here in the main article for any reader interested in the topic. -RevelationDirect (talk) 00:26, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
*RFC There is an open request for comments on proposed changes to WP:OCAWARD. Your input (pro/con/other) is always welcome here. -RD
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
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