Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yeh Shuhua

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to (G)I-dle. This was close, but there is a narrow consensus to redirect here, noting the strength of the arguments. I find Explicit's contributions the most persuasive. Daniel (talk) 03:45, 18 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yeh Shuhua[edit]

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Yeh Shuhua (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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Other users are assuming that accepted draft implies notability. But on what grounds is this artist notable? Let's start the discussion here then.

There are no evidence of individual notability in a musical career. No albums or works. Trivial appearances on TV just like all other Kpop artists. The article, as written, has pretty trivial mentions in references. Evaders99 (talk) 01:49, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. {{u|Sdkb}} talk 01:52, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of South Korea-related deletion discussions. {{u|Sdkb}} talk 01:52, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Taiwan-related deletion discussions. {{u|Sdkb}} talk 01:52, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep At worst, you'll end up with a redirect to (G)I-dle, which is already WP:N. Article was in draft for five months, and pulled here after two days out of draft space. Subject seems notable enough, proper BLP sources, drafting has served its proper purpose. Nate • (chatter) 02:56, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep As per Mrschimpf. In fact, this article is not the only one not meeting individual notability. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 03:21, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment: Surely being "not the only one not meeting individual notability" is incentive to bring these other articles to AFD as well. Abdotorg (talk) 14:15, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • @Abdotorg: Yea right ... and I meant article created since 2016. Btw, you edit or patrolled it before also, last I checked it hasn't been AfD before or yet. However, I'm not going to name what the article name is, if you're curious, you can go dig your contributions one by one. Peace out! — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 14:39, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Subject is notable enough to be kept, but it is at it's borderline. We've been carefully selecting reliable sources for five months in the draft space, and it passed AfC. YehWolf [🐺 • 🍒] 03:36, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Per Mrschimpf --IamMM (talk) 04:28, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 10:25, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect: Redirect to to (G)I-dle until the individual meets WP:NMG, appearing on ISAC and in a music video is not notable. Abdotorg (talk) 14:15, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect to (G)I-dle. Nothing I am seeing in the article sourcing is showing me the subject passes WP:GNG independently of the group. Missvain (talk) 16:27, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per User:Mrschimpf and User:Yehwolf. The article has a certain amount of reliable sources, and the subject is notable enough. Zin Win Hlaing (talk) 16:34, 31 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect to to (G)I-dle, can't find 3 reliable sources which makes it individually notable. Sonofstar (talk) 14:24, 3 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.
    1. 孫伊萱 (2021-06-04). "舒華《玩很大》開心合體憲哥 自豪「體力佳」豁出去零偶包". China Times (in Chinese). Archived from the original on 2021-06-06. Retrieved 2021-06-06.

      This is an extensive profile of the subject.

    2. 羅湘; 林宏宇; 張哲儒 (2018-04-19). "獨／高顏值台女韓出道　「泫雅師妹」18歲舒華高中照曝光" (in Chinese). SET News. Archived from the original on 2021-06-06. Retrieved 2021-06-06.

      The article discusses the subject's biographical background including her early life.

    3. 홍성훈 (2020-09-22). "[화보] (여자)아이들 슈화, 소년과 소녀의 경계 매력 화보 공개!". 내외뉴스통신 (in Korean). Retrieved 2021-06-06.
    4. 이수민 (2020-09-22). "(여자)아이들 슈화, 소녀와 소년의 경계…보이시 매력" (in Korean). Newsis. Archived from the original on 2021-06-06. Retrieved 2021-06-06.

      The article discusses her appearance on the cover of a Korean magazine independent of (G)I-dle.

    There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Yeh Shuhua to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

    Cunard (talk) 11:03, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • There is enough coverage about Yeh Shuhua to justify a standalone article. It would be undue weight to cover her biographical background and her independent activities in (G)I-dle. Cunard (talk) 11:03, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per Cunard. The first two sources they listed have many paragraphs of coverage of Yeh Shuhua. –Novem Linguae (talk) 14:08, 6 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect to (G)I-dle. As an admin who is actually capable of going through the Korean-language sources, the keep arguments are so incredibly off here. While it is true that the article is cushioned by two dozen references, the keep arguments failed to note that many of them don't mention Shuhua directly. Specifically, by reference number as of this revision:
  1. She is mentioned in passing in a news article about Lai Kuan-lin.
  2. This article is about (G)I-dle. She is not mentioned directly.
  3. This is a press release about photos she posted on Instagram.
  4. This is her record label's website.
  5. This a video of a (G)I-dle interview.
  6. This a video teaser.
  7. This is about her appearance on Knowing Bros, as part of promotion with (G)I-dle.
  8. This article is about (G)I-dle. She is not mentioned directly.
  9. This is an article about photos teasers for (G)I-dle's forthcoming debut at the time.
  10. She is mentioned in passing as simply being a member of the group.
  11. This article is about (G)I-dle. She is not mentioned directly.
  12. This article is about (G)I-dle. She is not mentioned directly.
  13. This article is about (G)I-dle. She is not mentioned directly.
  14. She is mentioned in passing that she placed third in rhythmic gymnastics at Idol Star Athletics Championships (henceforth ISAC).
  15. She is mentioned in for placing second place in game during ko:2020 추석특집 아이돌 멍멍 선수권대회, a Chuseok holiday variety show.
  16. This is about her appearance on Knowing Bros, as part of promotion with (G)I-dle.
  17. This is a video about her leaving from the KBS Song Festival.
  18. This article is about her at the KBS Song Festival and she is simply quoted.
  19. This is Weibo social media post by a company she worked with (?).
  20. This is Weibo social media post by a company she worked with (?).
  21. This one arguably actually goes in depth about being on a variety show in Taiwan, her home country.
  22. Routine coverage that she is appearing ISAC and she is quoted for saying she practiced a lot.
  23. Similar to reference 21.
  24. This is an article about her debut with (G)I-dle.

The references provided by Cunard above:

  1. 獨／高顏值台女韓出道　「泫雅師妹」18歲舒華高中照曝光 is essentially a copy of reference 24, which indicates a press release.
  2. [화보 (여자)아이들 슈화, 소년과 소녀의 경계 매력 화보 공개!] and (여자)아이들 슈화, 소녀와 소년의 경계…보이시 매력 are routine press releases that announce her pictorial with BEAUTY+.

She is not independently notable. ✗plicit 04:46, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • "獨／高顏值台女韓出道　「泫雅師妹」18歲舒華高中照曝光" from SET News was published on 19 April 2018. Reference 14 was published on 3 May 2018. It is possible that the Nius News article (which I did not include in my list of sources) closely paraphrased some of its content from the SET News article (which I included in my list of the sources). But the articles are not identical. The SET News article notes: "葉舒華國小老師林容萱：「國小時代，情人節的時候就有人送她巧克力，她個性是文靜的，但是在5年級我們在做自治市長的推選時，班上同學是推舉她，這件事我倒是比較訝異了一下，但是她也滿有大將之風。」" From Google Translate: "Lin Rongxuan, a teacher at Ye Shuhua's elementary school said, 'In elementary school, someone gave her chocolate on Valentine's Day. Her personality is quiet, but in the fifth grade, when we were electing the mayor of the municipality, the classmates recommended her. I was a little surprised, but she is filled with leadership qualities.'"

    The Nius News article does not contain this quote. I searched for " "國小時代，情人節的時候就有人送她巧克力" and did not find it in any press releases. I can find no evidence that the SET News article is from a press release. The bylined Newsis article from a Korean news agency discusses her solo appearance (without the other members of her group) on the cover of the Korean magazine BEAUTY+. The Korean news agency article is not a press release. It is a brief article but it contributes to notability per Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria, which says, "If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources may not be sufficient to establish notability."

    I agree that reference 21 from China Times and reference 23 from Eastern Broadcasting Company's zh:ETtoday新聞雲 provide significant biographical coverage about her in the context of her appearance on a variety show in Taiwan (without the other members of her group). These two 2020 sources by themselves are enough to meet Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria and show that she is notable independent of her group. In combination with the 2018 SET News article, Yeh Shuhua more clearly passes Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria. Cunard (talk) 05:10, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Cunard: I meant that they are copies in that the essence is the same, even if written differently. "She's so young! She has attracted a lot of attention!" That's standard press release fanfare. And, as expected, a portion of those articles rely on her being quoted. A teacher from the elementary school she attended being quoted is also not independent coverage, clearly.
The NBN News article is a press release. There are exact copies with miniscule differences found on Sports Dong-a and News Pic. For Newsis, aside from their first paragraph, copies are easy to find: second paragraph here, except the latter adds "완벽히" and removes "보이시한"; the third paragraph is shared with NBN News, except Newsis ends their sentence at "...통해 깜짝 공개될 예정이다" while Newsis continues theirs with "...통해 깜짝 공개될 예정으로...", etc.
I gave these Chinese-language sources another go (I was crunched for time by the time I got to them in my previous post), the China Times source seems to rehash what she did on the show, that she visited her family, and that she opened an Instagram account. The ETtoday references is another recap of what transpired in the episode. This is the standard of "significant coverage"? What encyclopedic content can we write with this? And even worse, this article is nothing more than a list of "she did this" and "she did that" in context of her talking about herself. WP:PRIMARY at its finest. The "2016–2017: Pre-debut activities" section is based on interviews except the last sentence, where the source doesn't mention her directly. The "2018–present: (G)I-dle and solo activities" section is where the passing mentions kick in. Please note that WP:BASIC states the subject may be considered notable. It is not a guarantee. ✗plicit 06:43, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I struck the 내외뉴스통신 and Newsis articles per your analysis. I consider the remaining sources sufficient to establish notability. The 2018 China Times article discusses the subject being a native of Taoyuan, attending the Ye Shuhua Elementary School, attending for one year the Huagang Art School's drama department before going to South Korea, appearing in actor Yoo Seon-ho's music video, joining the girl group (G)I-DLE at age 18, and being compared to Taeyeon. This covers her "directly and in detail" (quoting from Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline). The 2020 SET News article discusses how the subject is a member of the Korean girl group (G)I-DLE, is Taiwanese, rarely returns to Taiwan but returned in March 2021, on returning she participated on the Taiwanese variety show "Mr. Player", created an Instagram account that surpassed 400,000 followers in one day, and has a large number of fans in Taiwan and South Korea. The Eastern Broadcasting Company's zh:ETtoday新聞雲 article discusses the subject's performance on the Taiwanese variety show "Mr. Player" and viewers' perception of her. With three articles devoted to discussing her biographical background and her activities, there is enough non-WP:PRIMARY biographical background here to meet Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria, which says that a subject who received significant coverage in reliable sources is notable if she does not meet WP:BLP1E or WP:NOT, neither of which apply to her as she is not known for one event and she does not fall under any of the WP:NOT criteria. Cunard (talk) 07:24, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect t, accepting Explicit's analysis of the sources. This sort of pseudo-reference is increasingly present , and implies promotionalism The alternative is delete, because of the promotionalism. . DGG ( talk ) 04:57, 7 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ambrosiawater (talk) 16:39, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect per the convincing analysis by Explicit.4meter4 (talk) 19:59, 16 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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