Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yasuhiro Konishi

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep for Yasuhiro Konishi with leave quickly (but not speedy) renominate if independent sources aren't found and no consensus for Japan Karate-Do Ryobu-Kai with leave to speedy renominate. Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:13, 31 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yasuhiro Konishi[edit]

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. — • Gene93k (talk) 23:57, 23 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. — • Gene93k (talk) 23:57, 23 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep 21,400 Google hits for "Yasuhiro Konishi karate", including videos, images, websites and articles. 78,600 Google results for "Japan Karate-Do Ryobu-Kai". Additionally, as the author, I've added further third-party sourcing to both the Yasuhiro Konishi and Japan Karate-Do Ryobu-Kai articles, but also thought it might be helpful to summarize a few items. First, here are some notes on the sources used and references cited in the article:

Extended content

FightingArts.com is a well-respected source of scholarly articles that has been in existence for more than a decade. It is not associated in any way with Yasuhiro Konishi or Japan Karate-Do Ryobu-Kai.
Dragon Times is the internet arm of Classical Fighting Arts magazine, which is a highly respected source of first person interviews and scholarly articles that has been in publication since 1968. It is not associated in any way with Yasuhiro Konishi or Japan Karate-Do Ryobu-Kai.
"Old Grand Master Yasuhiro Konishi: Karate and his Life” by Kozo Kazu is a biography of Yasuhiro Konishi published in 1993. Kozo Kazu was a student of Yasuhiro Konishi, and wrote his biography using primary sources and interviews with Konishi himself.
"Ancient Okinawan Martial Arts, Volume 2: Koryu Uchinadi" by Patrick McCarthy is a primary research work written by one of the most respected English language martial arts scholars in the world today. Mr. McCarthy is not associated in any way with Yasuhiro Konishi or Japan Karate-Do Ryobu-Kai.
"Japanese Karate, Volume 1: Shindo Jinen Ryu" is a documentary film produced by Dragon-Tsunami, the multimedia arm of Classical Fighting Arts. The material therein is almost entirely from primary research, and focuses on the birth of karate in Japan and Konishi's important role in advancing the art. Neither Dragon Tsunami nor Classical Fighting Arts is associated in any way with Yasuhiro Konishi or Japan Karate-Do Ryobu-Kai.
"Japanese Karate, Volume 2: Ryobukai and Shotokan" is a documentary film produced by Dragon-Tsunami, the multimedia arm of Classical Fighting Arts. The material therein is almost entirely from primary research, and focuses on the close relationship between the founders of Shindo Jinen Ryu and Shotokan karate. Neither Dragon Tsunami nor Classical Fighting Arts is associated in any way with Yasuhiro Konishi or Japan Karate-Do Ryobu-Kai.
"Self-referential" resources like the Japan Karate-Do Ryobu-Kai Instructors Manual and JKR websites were only used to support information that is inherently non-contentious such as organizational goals and curriculum.

Second, here are some general notes on the reasons I believe the Yasuhiro Konishi and Japan Karate-Do Ryobu-Kai articles should be kept:

Konishi's history is closely intertwined with that of Gichin Funakoshi, who founded Shotokan and is considered the father of modern karate. Funakoshi was able to establish his first club only because Konishi agreed to let him teach and train at his (Konishi's) own school.
Yasuhiro Konishi was one of the very first to teach karate on the Japanese mainland, and his dilligent efforts to gain acceptance for karate in Japan were a major factor in the art's success and expansion.
Konishi significantly influenced what was taught by Funakoshi, directly affecting the lineage of both Shotokan and the art of karate in general.
Konishi was a senior student and colleague to not only Gichin Funakoshi, but Kenwa Mabuni (founder of Shito-Ryu), Morihei Ueshiba (founder of Aikido), and Choki Motobu (founde of Motobu-Ryu and one of the greatest fighters of his time.) The style of karate he created as a result - Shindo Jinen Ryu - blends all of these influences, and is unique. Shindo Jinen Ryu is recognized as a significant style by the Japan Karate Federation.
Konishi is acknowledged to have been key to the success of Choki Motobu in teaching in Japan.
Shindo Jinen Ryu is today taught through the organization Konishi founded - Japan Karate-Do Ryobu-Kai - in more than 20 countries on every continent except Antarctica. The list of nations is as follows: Japan, United States, Venezuela, United Kingdom, Sweden, Sri Lanka, Panama, Russia, Pakistan, Nepal, Mexico, India, Germany, Iran, Denmark, Chad, Canada, Cameroon, Brazil, Bahamas, Aruba, Armenia and Australia.
Notable practitioners of Shindo Jinen Ryu include Kiyoshi Yamazaki - who has served in a number of high-level capacities for the WKF and the USANKF - and more recently Mina Yamazaki, who is one of the top female karateka competing at the world level today.

Hope this helps keep the Konishi article in place, as well as that for Japan Karate-Do Ryobu-Kai. In regard to the latter, I believe it would make sense to leave the Shindo Jinen Ryu page as a simple redirect, but change that redirect to point to the Japan Karate-Do Ryobu-Kai page, which I have also strengthened considerably.

Finally, I am certainly sensitive to the number of martials arts whose practitioners have an over-inflated sense of importance about what they do. These entries, however, are genuinely different. Major elements of karate literally would not look as they do today - either organizationally or content-wise - without the influence of Yasuhiro Konishi, and both JKR and Shindo Jinen Ryu remain vital and important pieces of the current martial arts scene around the world. Thank you for your consideration. Pbelleisle (talk) 21:05, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Article seems to be well sourced and pass notability criteria. Astudent0 (talk) 17:37, 25 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Subject appears notable and article appears sourced. Papaursa (talk) 00:35, 30 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. As a kid his name for me and a few friends was a karate chop. You went 'whack' and said Konishi. I can't remember why, didn't seem strange at the time...Szzuk (talk) 18:50, 30 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
comment - The proposers rationale seems well planted in policy and the Keep rationalles don't seems to really erxplain whjy they think this is independently notable or comments that it "appears sourced" - make no investigation of independent notability as required at wiki. I was going to close this as no consensus to delete - although four users have commented Keep I am still more in support of the nominators rationale - also thousands of Google search returns is imo meaningless unless you actually present some of them that are independent and reliable as per wiki guidelines. The last keep comment from Ssuk is uncountable in policy. Off2riorob (talk) 21:37, 30 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.