Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Women's liberation movement

Add links
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was speedy keep. Nomination withdrawn. (non-admin closure) Woodsy lesfem (talk) 19:11, 22 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Women's liberation movement[edit]

Women's liberation movement (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

"Women's liberation movement" is already bolded as another term used for the Feminist movement. This article seems to be repeating the history of second-wave feminism/radical feminism and I don't see any unique information in this article. I don't doubt the importance of the term, but I've only ever seen it used as a synonym for the feminist movement and don't think it needs it's own article. I think it deserves it's own section within Feminist movement or Feminism to discuss how it was the way women identified themselves before those terms were popularized. Woodsy lesfem (talk) 17:18, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • Speedy keep, then merge Your intention seems entirely reasonable, but AfD is the wrong venue for this: if you want to merge one article into the other, you should follow the process for page merges: see WP:MERGE. -- The Anome (talk) 10:14, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment I see what you mean, but the sections I'm suggesting are more of an attempt at rationale for deletion (basically "this term is important enough for maybe a section in another article but doesn't deserve a page on a topic already fully discussed in other articles") than they are a merge proposal. I would have suggested a merge if I thought that the information in the current article contained what I think should be in sections of other pages, but it doesn't. It just re-hashes information that is already contained in second-wave and radical feminism. If I suggested it as a merge, I wouldn't really be taking anything from the article in question--I'd have to look for sources discussing the term. Sorry if that was a little confusing, but thank you for your recommendation. Woodsy lesfem (talk) 16:10, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Woodsy lesfem: Its a misunderstanding that the term Women's Liberation Movement is a synonym for 'the' feminist movement. Like Socialist Feminism, Radical Feminism, Reformist Feminism and Liberal Feminism, it is one of the strands of Western feminism that have differing analyses of the sources of women's oppression and disadvantage and what should be done to change this. To provide detailed information about all the different strands of complex political movements all on one Wikipedia article makes for indigestible reading. Especially if the movement is international. (Imageine trying to do "the Labour movement" in one article ..) Makes for much better comprehension if each of those approaches to feminism are named and described BRIEFLY in a general article, with links provided to the more detailed descriptions. My suggestion is that if the general article is loaded with too much DETAILED information (eg. on Women's Liberation, Socialist feminism etc), what is needed is a good edit of the general article to re-locate this DETAILED info into the more specific articles. In other words the solution is not to get rid of the specific articles but to tidy up the more general one. I'm new to Wikipedia but hope this is useful ( and I will give it a go myself if I have time to scratch).SheHoo (talk) 06:49, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep: This article is well sourced and has a long editing history. It deserves to be kept as an independent article and not simply made a redirect.--Ipigott (talk) 12:12, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep and rework. The Drover's Wife (talk) 12:21, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Exactly SheHoo. One would not expect an article about the film industry to discuss all genres of movies and processes in great depth. It would rather be, so to speak, an anchor article about which other articles explain in greater depth specific aspects of the industry. Women's liberation was the think tank, so to speak from which other aspects of second wave feminism germinated.[1] It was a time when radical changes in the 1960s, such as the civil rights movement, the decolonization movements, the AIM movement and other radical ideas, led to women wanting to deal with inequalities throughout the society, rather than efforts aimed at unfair practices of individual businesses or laws.[2] In defining the movement and forcing women to think about what they wanted and how they defined themselves within the context of society, conflicts and fissures broke off between those who wanted to reform society and those who wanted to radically alter society, giving birth to other aspects of second wave feminism. Curthoy's argues that Women's Liberation differed from radicalism in that it focused on the harm of oppression to society at large.[3] It was a distinct world-wide phenomenon, as shown by the sources, which clearly indicate the topic is a significant facet of second wave feminism that lasted over two decades and clearly meets GNG. [4], [5],[6],[7], [8] SusunW (talk) 15:00, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: Per Ipigott and SusunW. Also, clearly meets GNG. --Rosiestep (talk) 15:31, 21 February 2018 (UTC) Speedy Keep. Changing from Keep to Speedy Keep, which I should have done from the start. --Rosiestep (talk) 00:53, 22 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Speedy Keep this is snowballing per @SheHoo and SusunW: arguments--Theredproject (talk) 19:38, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per @SheHoo and SusunW: the term arose at a specific historical moment, within a specific context, and cannot and should not be conflated with the terms that succeeded it. Agree that (as so often) a good overhaul is the way to go. Alafarge (talk) 20:39, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Speedy Keep SusunW showed exactly why this isn't the same as the Feminist movement. There's a reason we have different names for different social movements: there's a lot of nuance involved that can get lost when we try to merge everything into one article. It also diminishes the work and effort of the people involved to lump them into one homogeneous grouping. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 23:24, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment That concept (WLM as not a synonym) is not solid though--the statement "The expression "Women's Liberation" has been used to refer to feminism throughout history." from History of feminism has a legit source. I'll give ya that women's liberation has generally been used to specify the second-wave (see Jo Freeman's discussion of the branches of the WLM in the first few pages of this paper--NOW/liberal vs those coming from the New Left/younger women doing the more radical stuff[1]) but there are sources that call the entire movement for women's rights the women's liberation movement, as well as call the second-wave the women's liberation movement. [2][3][4][5][6][7] It's important to note that people stopped calling it the women's liberation movement and started calling it the women's movement (which it's still called by some, although it's more commonly just called feminism now) due to stigma, so I disagree that it was only a specific type of feminist movement. Regardless, it definitely needs to be reworked. Again, I appreciate the input from y'all. Never quite sure how to close these discussions/rescind my nomination lol Woodsy lesfem (talk) 04:42, 22 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment, this is not typically the place to discuss the article, which I will grant should be severely overhauled. Sources can always be found to establish any point of view, but looking at historical sources, we gain a sense that the WLM was a period when sexism was not only recognized, it was challenged, with women seeking the right to be autonomous. That was a different concept than simply seeking socio-economic and political gains, which had been the course of the first wave of feminism. While it may now be lumped in with the history that came after, at the time, it was decidedly a radical concept for women to view themselves as individuals rather than the societal roles that defined them.p 299, [9], p 306 It wasn't a specific type of movement, in the sense that it was unified and seeking singular gains like suffrage, equal pay, etc., but it was a specific movement in that consciousness raising on the question of autonomy and women being able to chart their own course became a mainstream idea for the first time. SusunW (talk) 16:38, 22 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
  1. ^ Freeman, J. (1975). Political Organization in the Feminist Movement. Acta Sociologica, 18(2/3), 222-244.
  2. ^ Collier-Thomas, Bettye (2010-02-02). Jesus, Jobs, and Justice: African American Women and Religion. Knopf Doubleday Publishing Group. p. 454. ISBN 9780307593054.
  3. ^ Cordell, S. A. (2005). Women's liberation movement. In W. Kaufman, & H. S. Macpherson (Eds.), Britain and the Americas: culture, politics, and history. Santa Barbara, CA: ABC-CLIO. "Also known as “Second-Wave Feminism,” the Women’s Liberation Movement (WLM) was a grassroots movement"
  4. ^ Evans, Kathy M.; Kincade, Elizabeth Ann; Seem, Susan Rachael (2011). "Feminist Therapy: Roots and Branches". Introduction to Feminist Therapy (PDF). SAGE Publications, Inc. p. 4.
  5. ^ Freeman, J. (1998). Women's liberation. In W. P. Mankiller (Ed.), The reader's companion to U.S. women's history. Boston, MA: Houghton Mifflin."Women’s Liberation was the early term for the feminist movement that began in the 1960s. The popularity of the term declined after a few years because some used it to ridicule the movement."
  6. ^ Women's liberation movement. (2013). In J. Myers (Ed.), Historical dictionaries of religions, philosophies, and movements: Historical dictionary of the lesbian and gay liberation movements. Lanham, MD: Rowman & Littlefield Publishers. "The name given to the second wave of feminism, since its goal was to liberate women from the political, social, cultural, and economic oppression of sexist patriarchal society."
  7. ^ The Women's Rights Movement (2007). In C. Brennan, K. J. Edgar, J. Galens, & R. Matuz (Eds.), American Social Reform Movements Reference Library (Vol. 2, pp. 373-405). Detroit: UXL. "The women's rights movement of the 1960s and 1970s sought significant improvements in women's legal, economic, and political rights. The changes brought about by the women's rights movement, also known as the women's liberation movement, have affected nearly every aspect of women's lives, including education, marriage, reproduction, work, and health."
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Women%27s_liberation_movement&oldid=1071231663"