Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Wilhelm, Landgrave of Hesse-Philippsthal-Barchfeld (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Malcolmxl5 (talk) 19:01, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wilhelm, Landgrave of Hesse-Philippsthal-Barchfeld[edit]

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Notability has been in question for 8 years, with no inline citations provided in that time. Article attributes a living person with styles and a title that were dissolved in 1866, and most of the text is either the history of this landgrave/the House of Hesse, or unsourced details on his marriage and descendants (I just removed 650 bytes of the names and birthdates of his minor grandchildren). JoelleJay (talk) 17:21, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. JoelleJay (talk) 17:21, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. JoelleJay (talk) 17:21, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions. JoelleJay (talk) 17:21, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - when you strip away all the historical context, all we have is the naming of his parents, the details of his marriage, the names of his children, and the attribution to him of an obscure title, itself non-notable, that hasn't existed in the real world for 150 year. This is just a genealogical entry. He exists. Good for him, but WP:GNG requires a great deal more than mere existence. Agricolae (talk) 17:34, 11 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep: the Hesse family are as intermarried with the reigning and defunct royalty of Europe as the Windsors (e.g. Prince Philip's sister married into the Hesses'; last Empress of Russia was Alex of Hesse, etc etc), and sorting out who is who can be a nightmare, so having an article like this for a current member is valuable. Hesse family members rock up at British royal occasions, and their marriages and funerals are still covered in the tabloid press, so this helps provide background information. Wishing its deletion isn't aiding Wikipedia: it's an insidious, informationally-destructive, 'chippy' form of cancel culture. ClearBreeze (talk) 12:55, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The request for sources has been around for 8 years; if this particular member of the Hesse family is as notable as you say, why haven't the editors who voted keep in the first AfD added in RS? Passing mention in genealogy books and hypothetical tabloid articles are hallmarks of WP:PSEUDO (In general, creating a pseudo-biography (on an individual who is only notable because of their participation in a single event) will mean that an editor creating the article will try to "pad out" the piece by including extraneous biographical material, e.g. their date and place of birth, family background, hobbies and employment, etc. Such information, in many cases, will fail the inclusion test, as it is unlikely to have been widely publicised in the media.). See also: WP:NOTINHERITED, WP:BIOFAMILY, WP:INVALIDBIO. All of the information on his page could be merged with House of Hesse, although proper sources would still need to be found. JoelleJay (talk) 19:57, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Those are reasons why the House of Hesse is notable, but not why the subject of this article is notable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:241:300:B610:E9F2:DB80:8689:5D3C (talk) 04:14, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

WP:NOTINHERITEDis an ill-framed article and always has been. In the real world notability is commonly inherited, and an encyclopedia that aims to be comprehensive should reflect that. Secondly, informationally useful articles on minor royals and aristocrats are being deleted due to a cancel culture stemming from personal politics and/or resentment. It needs to be strongly resisted as it's utterly corrosive to Wikipedia. ClearBreeze (talk) 11:28, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Well, if you want to change things like WP:NOTGENEALOGY and WP:NOTEVERYTHING you can take it to the Village Pump. Minor royals and aristocrats are being deleted because they lack coverage in reliable sources that demonstrate notability. If you are so invested in keeping such pages around, find RS for them rather than casting aspersions about the intents of other editors. JoelleJay (talk) 17:19, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

ClearBreeze has now been blocked indefinitely for their behavior on this and other pages. I don't know if it's appropriate to strike their !vote/comments myself. JoelleJay (talk) 03:11, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Like it or not, senior members of notable royal and aristocratic families are themselves notable. This is just common sense. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:34, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia strongly disagrees: WP:NOTINHERITED, WP:BIOFAMILY, WP:INVALIDBIO. JoelleJay (talk) 19:57, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I wasn't aware I said he was notable because he was related to someone else. I said he was notable because of who he is. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:06, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

So how is he notable outside of his family history? JoelleJay (talk) 17:19, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Doesn't have much information on the individual himself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:241:300:B610:2484:F653:CB12:53FE (talk) 23:56, 15 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, per WP:NOTGENEALOGY. This article essentially functions as an Unreferenced list of members of the House of Hesse, there is no indication this person passes WP:GNG. There is literally no information that does not relate to this articles purpose as a genealogy listing, there is nothing about this guy besides the fact that he was born, got married and had kids, and none of those events seems to have gotten any coverage. Devonian Wombat (talk) 00:00, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per Devonian Wombat, and also per WP:TNT: once you strip away the genealogical cruft, there is nothing left. --JBL (talk) 01:35, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete because there is nothing about him online, not even in German. It is a clear case of failing WP:GNG. If being head of a noble family meant being notable, then surely there would be sources demonstrating that notability beyond genealogy. If genealogy is all there is to it, then we need an article about the family rather than individuals. Surtsicna (talk) 08:11, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.