Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/White Horse Flag

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge. No consensus to delete, and consensus even to merge is spotty. However, the redirect is reasonable, and the content can be removed from the target article through talk page discussion if there is feeling that it doesn't belong there. Chick Bowen 21:02, 9 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

White Horse Flag[edit]

White Horse Flag (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

In the WP:VWP:N Derby, this horse doesn't finish. Serious consideration and shameless equine puns are welcome. no jokes, please. Ecoleetage (talk) 13:13, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The "references"; one is a geocities site and one doesn't mention the flag at all. Wikipedia is not for things you made up when horsing around one afternoon, but I'll be shouting myself horse trying to convince noobs that until i'm old and grey in the mane. Delete (And I also request I be trialed for war crimes with those puns. Sorry to saddle you with them.Ironholds 13:29, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The one that isn't a personal site is the BBC web news. Pretty good for WP:RS Andy Dingley (talk) 16:08, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, the BBC article rather cruelly points out the lack of notability in this story. Ecoleetage (talk) 16:37, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete with Mint Juleps for All Shapiros10 contact meMy work 13:45, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete WP:V issues - trotting over to Google (as one test) [1] shows problems. A brief canter through Flag of Wiltshire doesn't seem that anything should be merged there from this article. Best to put this out to pasture. Pedro :  Chat  13:49, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi - first thing, this is nothing frivolous - if you feel the item is not of sufficient interest fine but this is a genuinely intended attempt to include information about a flag design that is in existence and which I feel deserves some wider notoriety. I didn't realise that geocities hosted sites are unacceptable - this is the site where the design originated so it seemed pertinent to include it as the main reference, what exactly did I do wrong here? No the other reference does not metion the flag, why should it? It does mention the horse designs which are typical of the county and on which the horse design flag is based. Should one not include information about such origins then? There is nothing here dreamt up on an afternoon so perhaps we can leave the puns and sacrcasm to one side. If this article fails to meet your eaxcting standards that's ok but I would appreciate a little more guidance and a little less ribaldry or I shall just inform associates and colleagues that Wikipedia is full of clowns and jokers and to refrain from using it as any sort of reference. Vexilo - August 31

Reply Vexilo - apologies. You are quite right. Regretfully seasoned editors of Wikipedia become slightly jaded at times and the opportunity for a bit of humour is siezed on - without proper thought. Please don't feel you are being mocked in any way - it's more self mocking than anything else. With regard to the article it fails two of our most exacting criteria - notability and verifability - basically an alternative design for a flag of a county of England that was not accepted is not particularly notable (as opposed to, say, historic designs of the Flag of The Union) and even then we have few reliable sources with which to verify the information being presented. Again, apologies for the puns and sarcasm and please let me extend my welcome to you and see what we can do to help you as a Wikipedian. Pedro :  Chat  14:10, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Vexilo, I am sorry that you feel stressed by some of the humour related here. However, the comments were clearly not a personal attack against you or your contribution. Any article that is submitted to AfD is open for dissection, and I can say that many of the comments that are generated in other discussions within this forum can be considered cruel or worse. However, calling people "clowns and jokers" is not exactly a high road comment - please remember that civility is a two-way street. Furthermore, it appears that you have been an editor on Wikipedia since February 2007. I would like to assume that in that period you have been aware of the standards required in putting articles online; your article clearly did not meet these standards, which is why it was nominated for AfD. If you require assistance in further understanding the WP:RS policy, I will be glad to help you there. Ecoleetage (talk) 14:25, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I added a couple of refs, though whether this is sufficient is another matter. RMHED (talk) 14:40, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Good Work. Looking at those references, I wonder if there may, in fact, be scope to expand Flag of Wiltshire with some of the information here - however I think we'd need a ref to the effect that this specific design didn't succede but was notable within the competition itself. Pedro :  Chat  14:45, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
As far as I can understand it there wasn't an actual competition just differing proposals for a county flag, none of which has any official status. The Flag of Wiltshire though, is the one that seems to have been most widely adopted. RMHED (talk) 15:01, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry - read "campaign" - I'd say the flag that won the campaign is notable (and we have an article). So the question becomes - is one of the flags that was in the campaign but not accepted notable? Not for it's own article, but possibly in the Flags of Wiltshire article as a section or at least passing reference? Just thoughts really. Pedro :  Chat  15:07, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
As neither flag has any official status then I think the White Horse flag should also feature on the Flag of Wiltshire article. A merge and redirect would be a good idea. RMHED (talk) 15:25, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. Merge and redirect to Flag of Wiltshire. Pedro :  Chat  15:31, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Good finds, RHMED. But the proposal was a one-man notion from two years ago -- if nothing happened since, this may be just a case of WP:NOT#NEWS. Ecoleetage (talk) 14:47, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

To Pedro, thanks, my faith is restored. I fully accept that articles will be deleted if they do not reach the high standards you set and appreciate your reasoning here. To Ecoleetage, it’s not a question of minding the criticism or being stressed by it, I just don’t feel your comments were particularly helpful. Yes I have been making contributions, to Wikipedia from time to time but I am no expert, indeed I find it a bit of a quagmire but if I come across something that I think may be useful I like to provide new information and learn from the errors if it is rejected. I am sure you resent terms like “clown” and “joker” but such phrasing is inspired by the tone you set.

Yes there was never a competition for the Wiltshire flag, the design that has achieved some recognition as the county flag was initiated by a local firm with great resources, which allowed it to achieve huge publicity and effectively brow beat the local council into accepting the proposal as the county flag. However, it has no more real validity as the county flag than this proposal, which did not get into the public eye as well because it was the creation of a lone individual. I just thought I might even up the playing field a little by giving it a public airing here. I suppose it might be possible to include its illustration and a line or two of its background as a paragraph in the article on the Great Bustard flag – I leave this for your consideration.

Vexilo August 1. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vexilo (talk • contribs) 15:22, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Merge to Flag of Wiltshire (possibly Keep). This is a real topic and notable. My only concern is that it's better presented as an overall article on the issue of choosing the county flag. I don't know what silly bustard prefers the other one. Andy Dingley (talk) 16:08, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete and merge with the winning flag. Same as politicians; if you don't win, you're not notable. Tan ǀ 39 16:09, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I cannot agree to merge since (1) there was no official competition for a Wiltshire flag, so inserting the article there makes no sense since it was never officially sanctioned even for consideration; (2) this effort was strictly the solo effort of a young man whose entire campaign consisted of putting up a cheapo web site in 2006; (3) there wasn't even a real flag created -- the Western Daily Press said the "flag" was made from Mr. Fears' mum's bedding! -- and (4) the BBC confirmed that Wiltshire already had its own flag flying by the time Mr. Fears went online in 2006, so his efforts seemed pointless. And has anyone taken up Mr. Fears' campaign in the past two years? The article's author claims the current flag "has no more real validity as the county flag" -- uh, NPOV? And as for the effort to "even up the playing field a little by giving it a public airing here" - that is not what Wikipedia is about. I don't see the notability of this article. Ecoleetage (talk) 16:33, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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