Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/WhatsOnStage Awards Results - 2001

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Metropolitan90 (talk) 04:12, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

WhatsOnStage Awards Results - 2001[edit]

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List article of awards, lacking independent sources. No evidence of notability. Violates WP:INDISCRIMINATE and WP:LISTN. - Mr X 13:10, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I am also nominating the following related pages for the same reasons:

- Mr X 13:35, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000^(talk) 13:21, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Arts-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000^(talk) 13:22, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000^(talk) 13:22, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The awards have their own article, Whatsonstage.com Awards. If you think it's not notable and wanted to use that as the basis for nominating these sublists, you should have included that article in this nomination. postdlf (talk) 13:53, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I considered that, and may still do so. The lists themselves seem clearly non-notable, but the main article may have marginal notability in that the awards are generally mentioned in some reliable sources. - Mr X 14:01, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"The lists themselves seem clearly non-notable..." That's not a meaningful statement, as the lists are just presentations of information. Further, if the awards as a group have been covered in reliable sources, doesn't that mean WP:LISTN is satisfied here?
The analysis we need to see here is whether a history of award recipients for these particular awards is an appropriate level of detail in our coverage on the presumably notable Whatsonstage.com Awards. If it isn't, then these should be deleted. If it is, then these are proper either as a WP:SPLIT from the main parent article or as informational lists per WP:LISTPURP. 16:20, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
Yes, WP:LISTN seems to provide the best guidance on whether these lists meet our notability requirements. Unless there are reliable sources that discuss each list collectively, then they don't belong as dedicated articles. I was unable to find any such sources, thus my statement: "The lists themselves seem clearly non-notable...". WP:LISTPURP is part of the manual of style so it doesn't really doesn't apply to a deletion discussion. In this case, "notability is a test used by editors to decide whether a topic can have its own article" is instructive. - Mr X 16:53, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
But the "topic" is Whatsonstage.com Awards. These lists merely separate out the award results by year into separate pages because it's too big to fit in one article. It's nothing more than a history of the awards given. So the analysis you are trying to use is unhelpful here, if not incoherent ("The Foo Awards are notable, but the 2001 Foo Awards are not"). Which is not to say there isn't a good argument for deletion, just that it hasn't been presented yet. postdlf (talk) 17:01, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I guess we will have to agree to disagree on the merits of my arguments, but I'm not sure why you think these list would be "too big to fit in one article". These list are only about 2k bytes in size. Articles can easily frow to about 150k bytes before causing server issues. See for example Tony Award for Best Actress in a Play. - Mr X 17:18, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Then why not merge them? postdlf (talk) 17:32, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Because I have also nominated the main article Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Whatsonstage.com Awards for deletion. I'm willing to be convinced otherwise, if solid sources can be found. - Mr X 17:53, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That kind of makes a mess of these AFDs; you now have three separate discussions started (including Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/WhatsOnStage Award for Best Actor in a Play) for what are all just subdivisions of the same topic. Well, I'll give you this: if the parent article Whatsonstage.com Awards is deleted, all these lists should be as well. postdlf (talk) 18:15, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've added extra references to the parent article Whatsonstage.com Awards and can add more in order to show its notability. I'm new to wiki editing and thought the most efficient way to present the awards results from the last 13 years would be to have seperate articles (Tony Awards, Oliviers, Oscars do this). I welcome and appreciate any suggestions. Wikibenh (talk) 19:16, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000^(talk) 22:29, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've added the results history to the main article Whatsonstage.com Awards now, so I'm happy for these seperate articles to be deleted. Thanks, Ben Wikibenh (talk) 15:25, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep and wikify -- We do not allow Awards categories, and instead expect the awards to be listified as an article. The corollary is that we should keep the awards articles, even for not very notable ones. IN this case, it is obvious to me that many of the recipients are notable, as would be obvious if the appropriate links were made. We might usefully merge them so that one article covers several years. Peterkingiron (talk) 22:39, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Are you sure that we don't allow awards categories? What about Category:Theatre awards and its children? - Mr X 22:53, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, buff bills 7701 12:12, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Follow up -- Category:Theatre awards is a category of articles on awards. The normal outcome of a WP:CFD on an award (winners) category - which is what these are - is "listify and delete". It follows that we should keep the related list articles: see WP:OC#AWARD. Peterkingiron (talk) 22:23, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.