Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Westshore Town Centre

This discussion was subject to a deletion review on 2014 July 19.
For an explanation of the process, see Wikipedia:Deletion review.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Feel free to redirect to an appropriate target, if desired (is it common to redirect a mall to the article about the city in which it resides?). I can restore the article temporarily for the purposes of merging, if requested. ‑Scottywong | babble _ 15:22, 21 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Westshore Town Centre[edit]

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

NN 335,000 square ft mall. Was PRODed, but PROD was removed. Epeefleche (talk) 03:32, 12 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment As stated at [1], there are another 190,000 ancillary sq ft, for a total of 525,000 sq ft. Unscintillating (talk) 02:47, 19 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Shopping malls-related deletion discussions. NorthAmerica¹⁰⁰⁰ 12:17, 12 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of British Columbia-related deletion discussions. NorthAmerica¹⁰⁰⁰ 12:17, 12 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Selective merge to Langford, British Columbia. Coverage exists, (e.g. [2]), but it's mostly local from what I could find (see WP:AUD). NorthAmerica¹⁰⁰⁰ 23:25, 16 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I could see a redirect. It is already mentioned at the target. But there is almost nothing to merge. The only cited text is the square footage. The rest is all uncited and challenged. Any new material could be created and cited properly at the target. Epeefleche (talk) 23:47, 16 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've added sources to the article to better-qualify the merge. NorthAmerica¹⁰⁰⁰ 00:51, 17 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The mall was already mentioned at the target. Before this AfD was started. And the refs (which I would suggest should have been created at the target) are now reflected there. So a redirect seems more appropriate. Epeefleche (talk) 01:00, 17 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Nom has stipulated that the ~~mall~~ centre was already wp:prominent at another topic in the encyclopedia before the nomination, which as per WP:ATD meant that the topic was not eligible for deletion for non-notability at the time of the nomination. Unscintillating (talk) 00:49, 18 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

What? Are you confusing mention of it in another article on a broader subject, with notability necessary to qualify it for a standalone article??? Two wildly different things. Epeefleche (talk) 00:55, 18 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Analysis The "???" and the word "wildly" show that this is a logical fallacy called an appeal to emotion. The questions literally ask if I am confusing something, so are not really questions to me but are talking past me to a perceived audience, to associate my post with the word "confusion". In addition, there is a core contrast that basicly says that topics that fail WP:N and as per WP:ATD are eligible for merge, should not be confused with topics that pass WP:N. This is both a truism and a strawman. Unscintillating (talk) 00:25, 19 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment [3] states that in addition to the 335,000 sq ft, there are 190,000 "ancillary" sq ft. I have been studying the centre's website, which includes a link to [4], dated September 2013. The size of 335,000 is incomplete because there two smaller shopping centres in the same parking lot, along with a large "Real Canadian Superstore" and a "Canadian Tire" which are two of the largest stores in the complex. I get the following numbers.

Westshore Village, 67237 sqft
Eastgate Centre, 17691 sqft
The Real Canadian Superstore, largest store in the complex, possibly around 90,000 sqft
Canadian Tire, one of the large stores in the complex, possibly around 40,000 sqft

Unscintillating (talk) 02:47, 19 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Langford, British Columbia per conversation of Epeefleche and NorthAmerica. The Centre is not independently notable. --Bejnar (talk) 11:54, 20 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, or Redirect to List of shopping malls in Canada. No evidence of notability. The broader question here is why does it matter how many square feet it has? The fundamental policy is WP:GNG, which says nothing about square feet. What it does say (under Wikipedia:NRV#Notability_requires_verifiable_evidence), is, The evidence must show the topic has gained significant independent coverage or recognition. If a mall consists of a newspaper stand and a coffee shop, crammed into 500 square feet, but it's getting multiple articles written about it in national newspapers, then it's notable. If it's got a million square feet, 600 stores, and 10 acres of parking lots, but nobody other than the real estate industry rags are writing about it, then it's not notable. It's not our job to pick a number of square feet and declare that above this line, we bestow the mantle of notability. An article in a construction industry magazine talking about how many pieces of sheetrock were used does not establish notabiltiy. An article in a local newspaper talking about traffic congestion does not establish notability. A list of which generic big-box retailer, which generic drug store chain, which generic fast-food restaurant, which generic shoe store, which generic movie theater, and which generic supermarket have leased space does not establish notability. -- RoySmith (talk) 14:10, 21 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.