Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Werner Hoffmann (pilot born 1966)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Kurykh (talk) 04:49, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

Werner Hoffmann (pilot born 1966)

Werner Hoffmann (pilot born 1966) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Contested A7. A lieutenant colonel who heads a pilot school and can also paint. All of the coverage is either broken links or seems to be routine/trivial. Finding news coverage is more difficult because the name seems to be pretty common, but the claim of significance here seems to be that he is the commander of the PC-7 Team, which does not meet even the guidance of WP:SOLDIER. TonyBallioni (talk) 01:18, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 02:37, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Aviation-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 02:37, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Switzerland-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 02:37, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

• Info: There are more Werner Hoffmann Pilots on eng. Wikipedia. Searching for "Werner Hoffmann (pilot born 1966)" is not very effective/ useful. Better Keywords are Werner Hoffmann and/or Höffi.

FFA P-16 (talk) 14:38, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

• Keep

It is not because of his rank, it is because of his work. He was the co-founder of the Hornet Solo Display Team and he was one of the two first Hornet Solo Diplay Team Pilots. He was Pilot by the Patrouille Suisse, Wing Commander of the Fliegerstaffel 11 (Fighter Squadron 11) Tigers. He was Commander of the PC-7 Team in his time of commander the PC-7 Team was awarded at the Royal International Tattoo with the «King Hussein Memorial Sword». Under his command the PC-7 Team performed on its 25th Birthday theyr first air show with smoke generators on the roll -out of the first Pilatus PC-24. He is part time working as Chief Air Defens (CAD) he was Chief Air Operations Center (AOC)) of the Swiss Air Force. He is part of the Movie Flying Diamond His work is covered in a few books: Swissness 50 years Patrouille Suisse & 25 years PC-7 TEAM ISBN: 978-3-906562-43-8 Aridio Pellanda: Ueberwachungsgeschwader 30 Jahre Patrouille Suisse Max Huber, Kerzers ISBN: 3906401219 "PC-7 Team Backstage" ISBN: 978-3-906055-07-7 Under his leadership, the PC-7 team made a joint demonstration with the Patrouille Suisse at the Air14 where he was responsible for the demonstration of the two teams, who performed a display with 15 Aircraft (9 PC-7 and 6 F-5). On the Event Morgarten in 2015 the PC-7 Team performed under his command as first Air Display Team a public show synchronous to a live playing orchester . FFA P-16 (talk) 06:11, 2 March 2017 (UTC) Info: There are more Werner Hoffmann Pilots on eng. Wikipedia. Searching for Werner Hoffmann (pilot born 1966) is not very effective. Better Keywords are Werner Hoffmann and/or Höffi. FFA P-16 (talk) 06:11, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

• Delete Just a man with a job and - as usual, sorry - inflated importance. The Banner talk 12:04, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

Defintiv not usual and "Just a man with a job" if someone was part of 3 National Air Display Teams and the co-founder of one of this teams (Hornet Display Team, Patrouille Suisse PC-7 Team. Also "Just a man with a job and - as usual" but he is covered in minimum 3 Books :Swissness 50 years Patrouille Suisse & 25 years PC-7 TEAM ISBN 978-3-906562-43-8 Aridio Pellanda: Ueberwachungsgeschwader 30 Jahre Patrouille Suisse Max Huber, Kerzers ISBN 3906401219 "PC-7 Team Backstage" ISBN 978-3-906055-07-7 FFA P-16 (talk) 14:19, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

Try at least to have your citations correct "(...) and - as usual, sorry - inflated importance." The Banner talk 16:23, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

How much coverage is there in these books? Is there more about him than there is about Daniel Hösli or other team pilots? My father was mentioned in a book, my mother's second husband was also mentioned in a book and I have been in a report of a magazine-style television program. If it is only a sentence or two, it is not significant coverage. As usual the article creator has failed to properly cite the sources he has used, so it is impossible to judge how much there is about the subject in these books. It would need to be a lot more than the online sources, because they all have one or more problems with respect to notability, depth of coverage and of being independent of the subject (for example, I do not think a promotional video released by the Swiss Air Force represents "significant coverage in independent sources" - it is not independent and the coverage of him is not significant either). At the moment, pending better refs in the article (if they exist), my !vote is to delete due to a lack of notability. YSSYguy (talk) 02:09, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Well I was also once in a reportage in the Swiss National TV, had an article in a regional Newspaper and a 4 A4 page report in a swiss aviatic Journal. clear that this is not important enough to have an Wikipedia article about me. But here by Werner Hoffmann it is more, there are a few Articels about him in Cockpit, skynews.ch unfortunately the Air force Page about him as F/A-18 Solo Display Pilot and the Interview on Tele Züri with him is unfortunately no more on the internet and I tried to find the Documentation about him as Chief Air Operations Center from the swiss National TV but without success. 30 Jahre Patrouille Suisse has total 127 pages 7 pages with Werner Hoffmann. In Swissness 50 years Patrouille Suisse & 25 years PC-7 TEAM he is equal to Dani Hösli, In PC-7 Team Backstage is more weight about him than the others (25 years PC-7 Tem and he was 5 years commander of it). A book don't has to be only about him that he is relevant. This one is from Blick one of the two biggest online news portals in Switzerland FFA P-16 (talk) 11:23, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Of course you say he's notable, you wrote the article; but you have a habit of creating articles out of 'smoke and mirrors' of trivial mentions and as usual with your work on Wikipedia, you haven't bothered to reference this article properly (which you know how to do, because you have been told and shown many times), so it is impossible to judge how much coverage there is. If the books say stuff like "the team, commanded by Hoffmann, did a display at Payern" on seven different pages out of 127, that is not 'significant coverage'; that is the level of coverage my father and my mother's second husband received in books. YSSYguy (talk) 23:49, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

"Of course you say he's notable, you wrote the article" yes now you are showing your true reason, it is not about notability its only because the article is from me. It's irrelevant what is written about your father and your mother's second husband. Yes 7 Pages out of 127 is not much. But we have still the other 2 books Swissness 50 years Patrouille Suisse & 25 years PC-7 TEAM and PC-7 Team Backstage and I have given the ISBN (so it is NOT impossible to judge how much coverage there) is also he is covered in a few aviatic journals. And took part in the Movie Patrouille Suisse Balett der Jagdbomber this is enough coverage to see that he is notable. Never ending demands of proof and ignoring the books, journals etc.......FFA P-16 (talk) 12:29, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

References

...there we go - another deletion discussion about an article you created in which you play the victim, claiming that I and other people are persecuting you. If I am victimising you, why did I not argue for deletion at the recent deletion discussion for the Air14 article? Why, at the recent Sockpuppet investigation about you, did I state that you were not the Sockmaster? YSSYguy (talk) 00:43, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

Even a man on a mission should be able to distinguish - not here. This user absolutely needs help to see beyond his own (quite often prooven to be narrow) horizon as demonstrated by YSSYguy's answer or as needed in an article:[1]. He is not able to adapt his behaviour to the rules of Wikipedia. (He is even more trying to proove that the rules are wrong.) He now dumps his articles that were deleted in the german wiki into enwiki. It is a correct observation that the name Hoffmann and the parallel Nils Hämmerli and Daniel Hösli are/were mentioned in swiss media and even more, that this is always about their teams, which means because of their funcion (even very few PR of the air force), never because of their personal achievements.--2A02:1206:45A8:BC00:C7B:5F9D:418:378A (talk) 05:36, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

• Query Is there another example of a founder of a military aerobatic team rating a Wikipedia article just because of that? I know that there are founders or commanders who have gone on to other notable military jobs, but not of any who rate an article just because of it. --Lineagegeek (talk) 23:17, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
• Delete -- no notability established. Does not qualify under WP:SOLDIER or GNG. K.e.coffman (talk) 22:26, 4 March 2017 (UTC)
• Delete - has done a good job worked his way up the ranks and probably a good pilot up but I cant see anything particularly noteworthy that passes the bar for a stand-alone article. MilborneOne (talk) 22:32, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.