Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Vin Abrenica

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep- I don't usually close on crappy !votes but the constant arguing between you 2 is bloody draining and I think this AFD's had the life drained out of it enough for 1 week so I'm wrapping this up, Sources provided meet WP:BASIC so overall keep. (non-admin closure) –Davey2010^Talk 01:12, 3 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Vin Abrenica[edit]

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Delete:~~non-notable former child actor; mostly reality TV.~~ He has only six acting credits at IMDb and some reality show appearances as himself, which does not an actor make. This is clearly a case of TOO SOON, without prejudice upon review. Quis separabit? 00:47, 26 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions.North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 03:42, 26 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Philippines-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 03:43, 26 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. This actor is currently in a leading role in a primetime soap opera on a major TV network. He has also had other acting roles in previous drama series. Seems to pass WP:NACTOR. —seav (talk) 10:57, 26 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Per Nactor--Jondel (talk) 11:54, 27 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

~~@Jondel's vote should be disregarded. He has been twice accused of stalking this nominator's AFDs and~~ "Per Nactor" is woefully insufficient with regards to compliance with Wikietiquette (as per WP:AFD, to wit: "Remember that while AfD may look like a voting process, it does not operate like one. Justification and evidence for a response carries far more weight than the response itself"). Quis separabit? 02:15, 28 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Struck out as irrelevant. Accused. Not convicted. And you did the accusing. Don't vaguely imply an uninvolved third party.-- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 18:15, 28 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per WP:NACTOR#1. The practice of the nominator of counting acting credits and then concluding non-notability if the number falls between 4 and 6 is NOT found in any notability guideline in this project. WP:TOOSOON only applies if there are ZERO acting credits. Six satisfies the requirement of WP:NACTOR of multiple significant roles in significant films/TV shows. Abrenica plays lead roles in at least four soap operas in a major national network, TV5, which satisfies the "significant role" part. In terms of WP:GNG, here are a few secondary sources where he is the main subject, satisfying significant coverage: Bandera (Tagalog), Philippine Daily Inquirer, Philippine Entertainment Portal, (more here). The characterization of "mostly reality TV" is false. He was the grand winner of a (singular) Got Talent-type contest, but has since gained notability as an actor. He had never been a child actor.-- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 18:15, 28 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

WP:TOOSOON only applies if there are ZERO acting credits -- untrue, as an "actor" with zero acting credits would not be likely to long retain an article on Wikipedia as an actor/actress, and would likely be speedily deleted. Quis separabit? 13:16, 29 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

What it says is The guidelines do not mandate that all or even that most of these criteria have to be met... but if an actor cannot meet at least one of them, it is pretty much TOO SOON for an article to be considered, which may be what you were referring to. Quis separabit? 13:49, 29 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Errr... exactly. Wikipedia:Too soon#To summarize on actors: If an actor cannot meet at least one of the inclusion criteria, it is pretty much TOO SOON for an article to be considered. What was it you said again? SIX acting roles. Even without anything else, six significant roles already meets the first inclusion criteria of WP:NACTOR. WP:TOOSOON does not apply. Read that page again. In its entirety this time. -- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 14:40, 29 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know if you've also even realized this. But WP:TOOSOON is not policy. It's an essay on a common indicator of non-notability. What you should really be doing is trying to understand WP:NACTOR, after all these years. Just three little sentences that summarize what notability actually means for the subject of this discussion. Vin Abrenica is an actor.-- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 14:51, 29 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Obsid: "inclusion criteria is greater than (≫) "acting role" and "Significant" can be a subjective adjective. Quis separabit? 05:36, 1 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

He meets both WP:BASIC and WP:NACTOR. And yes it can be subjective. But not in this case. He plays the lead male roles in several shows. Either the protagonist, or the main romantic interest. Those qualify as significant roles, yes? The shows are broadcasted in the prime time block to a national audience by a major network. They in turn, are also notable. I've said this to you so many times, I almost have it memorized: WP:NACTOR#1 "Has had significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions." -- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 08:27, 1 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure as there's not much here although there seems to be coverage about him so it would be a weak keep at all but I'm not entirely sure. SwisterTwister talk 00:10, 29 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I am not going to beat a dead horse, as some do, but these two links ([1], [2]) are interviews with gossip columnists from reputable Filipino newspapers but do not demonstrate any particular notability, concentrating on his connections to the Arista Academy, his elder brother (also an actor), and his friendship with Mark Neumann, also referencing other Arista alumni (Neumann, Akihiro Blanco, Alberto Bruno, Benjo Leoncio, Brent Manzano, Chris Leonardo, Jon Orlando, Julia Quisumbing, Chanel Morales, Malak So Shdifat, Marvelous Alejo, Nicole Estrada, Stephanie Rowe, Shaira Mae and Sophie Albert), none of whom are notable (note that Alejo is a redirect). I obviously cannot judge Bandera (as it is entirely in Tagalog). This link is about 50% Tagalog. This link is invalid. I still believe Abrenica to be non-notable; possibly a case of TOO SOON. Quis separabit? 13:49, 29 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'm confused (*pokes at dead horse*). Why exactly does that "not demonstrate notability"? Point me to the exact guideline that explains how you came to that conclusion. The people referenced in the interviews is irrelevant. What matters is that he is the main subject of interviews by independent, reliable sources. That satisfies substantial coverage required in WP:BASIC. I also clearly mentioned that those three are merely examples. There are several pages more of articles on him, both trivial and significant. Including articles that verify his significant roles in several notable TV shows, which again is really all that matters when it comes to actors, per WP:NACTOR. Including these: PEP (Marry You), Manila Standard Today (Beki Boxer), SunStar (Never Say Goodbye), and The Philippine Star (My Fair Lady). -- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 14:40, 29 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.