Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Victoria Taranova

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. no evidence that the article meets the criteria for the profession DGG ( talk ) 00:15, 17 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Victoria Taranova[edit]

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Contested PROD. Prodded by Voceditenore (talk · contribs) with the reason After exhaustive searches in multiple languages, I can find no reliable sources to support the claims to notability in the article decltype (talk) 17:29, 9 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 19:58, 9 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been notified to WikiProject Opera. – Voceditenore (talk) 22:04, 9 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I'm afraid this still does not pass notabilty criteria for musicians. A scan of a letter saying that she completed a master-class over 15 years ago and some amateur YouTube videos are not enough. There is no independent published coverage to verify a significant career or impact – only a couple of trivial notices about free or semi-private concerts in Canada. In the case of opera singers, in lieu of multiple, significant, and independent coverage, other criteria can apply, i.e. documented proof of one of the following:
1. winner of a major national international singing competition
2. two or more recordings with a recognized classical music label
3. two or more leading roles on the main stage of a notable opera house/company (not student or 'young artist' productions)
4. a concert career as a soloist with major orchestras.
None of these are present. Ms. Taranova may well be talented, but Wikipedia articles aren't about talent or potential, they're about documented notability. Voceditenore (talk) 21:50, 9 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. I too was unable to locate any substantial references in English, French, or Russian. One of her you tube clips does appear to be a tv apearance, but the date of the broadcast is not given. It's possible she may be notable, but until some reliable sources proving that are found I say delete.4meter4 (talk) 23:06, 9 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, per nom. --GuillaumeTell 23:31, 9 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I performed a quick search and found on Wiki significant number of opera singers also not meeting notability criteria you’ve mentioned here. Could you please give the link where these criteria are listed? A scan of a letter placed is only to provide a “proof” for the “jury” for authentication of the recommendation. In maestro Di Stefano’s master-class were participated quite a number of singers but personal recommendation was provided only to Mrs. Taranova which is also “evidence” of notability. Also wondering where did you get info about free concerts and what did you mean by “semi-private concert”? For Mrs. Taranova never worked for free or subsidized her own participation in any of musical events world wide. Generally saying I can see pretty significant traffic on the article since Dec 2007 (unfortunately no data between Aug 2006 and Dec 2007 available) which is proofing that personality of Mrs. Taranova definitely getting interest from readers. Another point is that if the maestro considered Mrs. Taranova worthy of his personal letter then information about her personality will be worthy public attention (including of course maestro’s biographers and fans). Here I can see also benefit for Wiki to get more readers/users and possible contributors by keeping the article (and encourage everyone continuously update it). Another side will be contributing by adding materials/facts/documents/links/etc as well. Thank you. User:Beno287 10:26 13 July 2010 (EST)

For musicians and singers the most relevant notability guideline is WP:MUSIC. You can also look up WP:CREATIVE for general creative professionals. General notability principles are explained in WP:NOTABILITY. Plus you really need to read up on WP:V, Wikipedia's verifiability policy. A private letter posted on someone's personal website does not qualify under WP:V and consequently cannot be used to demonstrate someone's notability. Sources that could be used to demonstrate notability are things like newspaper articles, books, magazine articles etc. Nsk92 (talk) 15:06, 13 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the tip. Unfortunately no criteria applicable to opera singers found there so far. Sorry, but I would not consider written recommendation (from well known and reliable specialist) after a master-class (which is professional activity not a cocktail party!) as a “private letter”. As for other sources you’ve mentioned I’ll do the further research not hesitating to gain more knowledge about. User:Beno287 11:38 13 July 2010 (EST) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Beno287 (talk • contribs)

By a "private letter" I mean any letter sent to/given to a specific individual. The same would apply to a letter from a government agency or some organization to a specific individual. Such letters, even if the recipient scans them and posts them on his/her personal website, do not satisfy WP:V requirements and cannot be used as sources to justify notability. Nsk92 (talk) 15:50, 13 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

According to WP:V a letter from government or organization is considered as reliable source – a document. So in that case written recommendation (from maestro Di Stefano) together with official letter (from Jerusalem Music Centre) becomes the document. I did not specify that document has been taken from individual’s web. Of course birth or tax receipt can’t justify notability, but written recommendation supported by official letter can. User:Beno287 12:21 13 July 2010 (EST) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Beno287 (talk • contribs)

No, a letter from government or organization is not considered as reliable source per WP:V, until and unless it is publicly published by that government organization itself, on its own website or in print. Until and unless that happens, it remains a piece of private correspondence. You should really spend some time reading the various policies and guidelines first, particularly WP:V, WP:RS and the like. You might also want to look through various other AfD discussions and places like Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard. Nsk92 (talk) 16:31, 13 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Beno287, just to clarify, the main criteria that apply are those listed by Nsk92. In practice, at AfDs for opera singers the other criteria (which are adapted from the Criteria for musicians and ensembles) can be used to establish notability as an alternative (and only one of them is needed) provided there is verification for it. This is absolutely essential. The article so far supplies no verification to support any of the possible notability criteria. Attendance at a master-class is not evidence of notability. Literally thousands of students take them. A singer's notability comes from their own performances which have made a sufficient impact for them to be covered in depth in independent published sources, not from how famous their teachers were. I think you are also confusing notability with talent. They are not the same thing. This and this are examples of AfDs for opera singers which resulted in delete. This and this are examples for singers which were kept. Please read them and the articles themselves. They'll give you a better view of what is required. Voceditenore (talk) 16:34, 13 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.