Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Uday Sahay (4th nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. apparent consensus ; I doubt relisting will clarify matters further DGG ( talk ) 22:46, 26 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Uday Sahay[edit]

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Earlier nominations failed on lower participation. Non-Notable mid-level police official who has left service to start a non-notable company. Uncletomwood (talk) 06:18, 4 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. — Sam Sailor ^Talk! 09:24, 4 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. — Sam Sailor ^Talk! 09:24, 4 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Sahay was head of police for an entrie state of India. This is enough to make someone notable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:50, 4 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

How and where is this cited? The head of a police force of an Indian state is a Director General of Police. Where has he been the head of a police force? His last post was of the rank of SP which is equivalent to a major. Please do not comment mindlessly without looking at the article. Uncletomwood (talk) 16:28, 4 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Most definitely was not "head of police for a state" (per his own bio). K.e.coffman (talk) 18:30, 18 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Don't know - his notability is at best marginal and the article has a terrible problem with COI editors coming in to write about how marvellous he is.

That said, after one AFD goes a month with one Keep, one Don't Know, and the lister's Delete, I dunno how you expect more discussion starting another one four days later... Pinkbeast (talk) 17:11, 4 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 02:18, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Leaning Keep This article alone goes a long way toward establishing the minimum requirements for the General Notability Guideline: http://www.thehindu.com/books/got-the-link/article13855.ece — Preceding unsigned comment added by BoyRD (talk • contribs) 02:41, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

If you see he's just EDITED the book. Was not a signoficant author. Book is also not notable. Uncletomwood (talk) 03:23, 11 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't see it quite that way, but unless we're strictly using the test of the notability guideline for Authors, does that even matter? I'm not at all passionate about this and think his notability is minimal. If notability exists at all, it is proven by the General Notability Guideline. The claim is weak, but the article I cited, although ostensibly ABOUT the book does seem to include significant biographical information on the subject's larger life, (Career, spouse, views on govenment etc...) not just his credentials as an author. BoyRD (talk) 00:39, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete -- the subject appears to have served in a communications capacity in the police -- sort of like a PIO (public information officer). He then retired and started a branding consultancy / PR agency as described here:

"A contract has been awarded to a Delhi-based organisation headed by former IPS officer Uday Sahay for brand building in Bihar, especially through social media and to keep in touch with non resident Biharis. Nitish has also outsourced the task of marketing the key initiatives of his government to maximise support."

The subject appears to do a lot of self-promotion, as I'm seeing a number of trivial mentions (one per article), such as:

"Former IPS officer Uday Sahay, who has served as the liaison officer for the government of India for the Kailash-Mansarovar pilgrimage said this is the best thing that could have happened for the benefit of the yatris. "The other route is extremely treacherous. The vehicles can go only till Pitthoragarh district in Uttarakhand, and from there it is a trek of about seven days through Lipu pass, into Taklakot, a Chinese cantonment town. Major mishaps have happened during the last leg," Sahay told ET". link
"The state government has given a contract to a Delhi-based organisation headed by former IPS officer Uday Sahay for branding Bihar, especially via social media. This initiative was undertaken by Bihar Foundation that keeps in touch with NRBs. The agency will also market the key initiatives of the present government." link

Because of the problem of COI editing and expected persistent use of the article for self-promotion, I believe it would be helpful to delete this article. The notability is marginal at best. Yes, he edited several books, but at least one of them appears to be PR related: "This book is a collection of articles based on first-hand experiences in news media by eminent Indian media personalities. It is a comprehensive collection, exploring different kinds of news reporting across TV, print, and radio as also across different genres like sports, business, entertainment, war. Each essay is written as a primer yet with important tips from the foremost practitioners, which makes the business of reporting and news both a science and an art." (Making News).

So overall, suggest deleting. K.e.coffman (talk) 03:15, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. His job as a police chief is not grounds for automatic notability. The GNG isn't met, given the meager coverage, and editing a book (or two) does not make one notable. Writing a book is different, since the moment that book gets reviewed, the author basically gets reviewed; with editors, that is not the case--plus we would need serious secondary sourcing to establish that the book helped create notability, etc. Drmies (talk) 17:00, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Being a Chief of Police, even a chief of a large city, doesn't make one notable. But, being seen as someone whose opinion is important enough Indian journalists cite it, would make him notable. It would make him notable, even if those of us weighing in here all had strong feelings he just wasn't significant enough to be notable. Our policies are clear. Our opinions, our personal opinions, on what is notable, are trumped by what verifiable, reliable, authoritative sources have had to say. Wouldn't anyone who did their own web search, and saw that Indian journalists cited his opinions, on a variety of subjects, recognize he measured up to our notability criteria? Geo Swan (talk) 03:26, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: @Drmies and Geo Swan: I don't think that the subject was Chief of Police. From what I could gather, he was a police officer and a government official in a communications capacity, not head of the agency. Hence he went on to launch a PR agency. "A voluntarily retired officer of the Indian Police Service from Union Territory cadre, he headed the Directorate of Information and Publicity of Delhi Government and the communication vertical of the Commonwealth Games, 2010 Delhi before founding SAUV Communications Private Limited. A five-year stint in Prasar Bharati converted a baton wielding police officer to a pen holding communicator." (from bio at agency's web site). K.e.coffman (talk) 03:33, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

K.e.coffman, I meant "police chief" in a loose sense. I'm looking at the article again, cleaning it up and teasing out the references. It is possible that he sort of squeaks by because of the coffee table book (and a few other little things), but I have not yet found enough evidence to call him notable as an author. Geo Swan's "keep" is, as usual, completely devoid of evidence. Drmies (talk) 03:49, 17 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comment -- this is one of the few things which appear not to be puff pieces: From Sheila govt to team Arvind, The Indian Express. But this sounds like rumors and innuendos. The subject may be somewhat notable as a political consultant. It's just difficult to tease anything out among all the PR / puffery. In any case, this coverage is trivial and I still advocated deletion. K.e.coffman (talk) 03:58, 17 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. K.e.coffman (talk) 03:37, 16 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete His police career sounds undistinguished and non-notable. Since then he has been a media consultant and has edited some non-notable books. Being quoted in news stories counts as a passing mention and also does not make a person notable. --MelanieN (talk) 21:51, 19 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Vanity page and clear case of WP:ADMASK. Fails GNG, WP:NACADEMIC and WP:AUTHOR. Following are the claims of notability and my comments are marked.

Police career: Absolutely not notable. This fails GNG.
Subsequent career:

Chairman and Managing Director of SAUV Communications Private Limited: Organization and position held, both not notable.
MD and CEO of Bodhi Tree Life Learning Private Limited: Organization and position held, both not notable.
Secretary General of the Society for Social and Economic Development: Organization and position held, both not notable.
Pro-Chancellor at Indira Gandhi Technological and Medical Sciences University: Fails WP:NACADEMIC.
Key media consultant for Sheila Dikshit’s campaign: Not notable.
Chief Communication Adviser to the Global Bihar Summit: Not notable.
Communication Advisor to the Unique Identification Authority of India: Not notable.
Communication Consultant to Delhi integrated Multi-Modal Transport Systems Limited: Not notable.
Communication Consultant to Lal Bahadur Shastri Institute of Management: Not notable.
Communication consultant, the task of digitally branding Bihar: Not notable.
Regent of the INLEAD Federation by Indian Institute of Learning and Advanced Development: Not notable.

Publications:

Edited book - Making News: Handbook of the Media in Contemporary India: Not notable, fails WP:AUTHOR.
Contributed 20 photos to a photography book: Seriously??
Co-authored Media aur Jansamvad: Not notable and fails WP:AUTHOR.
Edited a coffee table book, Raj Bhavan of the Rising Arunachal Pradesh: Not notable and fails WP:AUTHOR.

There is nothing encyclopedic about the subject Uday Sahay. The subject appears to be a real world equivalent of hat collector and keeps on collecting some or the other title. Page is purely promotional and appears to be the case of paid editing. The article creator had also created Vartika Nanda which also needs attention for varifiability. Sorry for the long vote and comments, but this article has been nominated four times and every-time it manages to slip through the crack. The 1st non-admin closure performed by Czar (who was not an admin then) on 6 July 2013 was not proper and this nomination should have been handled by an admin. In any-case, lets correct this problem now. Arun Kumar SINGH (Talk) 08:52, 23 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I concur with the above comments. I also believe that the "keep" votes were made under the faulty assumption that the subject was "chief of police". He was not, and these votes should be discounted. This is a non notable, publicity-seeking individual. K.e.coffman (talk) 00:07, 26 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as by all means my examinations have found nothing and he's only listing 188 at WorldCat, by far nothing close to convincing. SwisterTwister talk 06:25, 26 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per AKS' thorough research. Cabayi (talk) 15:52, 26 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.