Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/True Family

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. MuZemike 18:51, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

True Family

True Family (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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Violates WP:Original research. "True Family" is a title given to Sun Myung Moon's family by members of his church (he has 12 kids.) However none most of the sources do not use the term. (one does, my mistake} They are mostly news stories about individual family members. Borock (talk) 16:07, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

• Merge (to Sun Myung Moon) or delete: there is very little coverage (far less than "significant") on the Unificationist idea of 'True Family'. Most of the article is a mere listing of family members. This is often unsourced or in excessive detail (I find it odd that Young Jin Moon, in common with his brother Heung Jin Moon, died in far greater detail than he lived). Shorn of this unsourced/excessive information, this could easily be merged into the article on the head of the family, Sun Myung Moon. Hrafn^Talk_Stalk^(P) 16:28, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

• Keep This is a topic that many people are interested in. Sources include Time magazine, and others.Steve Dufour (talk) 01:05, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

• Keep and help us expand the information on Sun Myung Moon's family, which is available in published sources. Also, help distnguish between True Children (Rev. & Mrs. Moon's children) and in-laws & grandchildren.

  Currently, the most important of the "True Children" are Hyung Jin Moon, "2nd in command" to Father Moon internationally, and In Jin Moon, head of the church in America. Each should have their own article - or if there is too little material, a redirect to their own section in True Children / True Family. --Uncle Ed (talk) 04:30, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

• Comment: last I checked, we had no source for the term "True Children", Hyung Jin Moon was a stub on a powerless figurehead ("However few expect this to mean any real transfer of power.") padded by a largely irrelevant quote praising Obama, and In Jin Moon was redirected because you couldn't find a single source on her. If this is the "most important" of them, then they really have no notability as a grouping, and should be merged into the article on their father. Hrafn^Talk_Stalk^(P) 06:01, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Hrafn is making two separate points.

1. About sources, he and I basically agree: writers must provide sources. I just wish he would (A) help find the sources, instead of (B) so frequently using the lack of sources as an excuse to delete useful information. Many articles have fact tags which are over one year old.
2. The "powerless figurehead" is an error, misinterpretation or possibly a personal opinion. Rev. Sun Myung Moon has delegated the responsibility for the entire worldwide Unification movement to his youngest son, Hyung Jin Moon. If there is a dispute - out there, among non-Wikipedians - about how much power HJM really has, then we can write about that dispute. But it should not be up to individual contributors like Hrafn (or me) to make that judgement call. --Uncle Ed (talk) 14:39, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Rebuttal:

1. ROFLMAO! You are being ludicrously WP:POT. I have seen little or no evidence that you believe that "writers must provide sources" -- as you almost never provide such sources yourself, but simply ask others to find them for you. Lack of significant coverage of the core topic of the article ("True Family") and lack of any coverage whatsoever of significant subtopics (e.g. the concept of 'True Children') is "an excuse [valid reason] to delete useful information [original research]".
2. No Ed, it is neither "error, misinterpretation [nor] possibly a personal opinion". The article that is one of the only two sources for Hyung Jin Moon states: "Despite last week's apparent transfer of power few expect Moon Sr, who was convicted in the US of tax evasion in 1982, to loosen his grip on power. 'He may have appointed his son, but Moon is constantly giving orders, and people do as they tell him,' a former member told the Guardian. 'He is unlikely to transfer any actual power to his sons.'"[1] It is rather your claim that "Rev. Sun Myung Moon has delegated the responsibility for the entire worldwide Unification movement to his youngest son, Hyung Jin Moon" that is wishful thinking and/or spin.

Hrafn^Talk_Stalk^(P) 23:32, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.