Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tom Hatton

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Wifione _.......^{Leave a message} 04:19, 23 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Tom Hatton[edit]

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(Prod restored) Non-notable actor; fails WP:ENTERTAINER. IMDb shows no major roles, no awards, no substantial 3rd party sources etc Tassedethe (talk) 03:54, 9 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per lack of notable sources that could help this biographically, as I didn't find any good mentions on both Google and Yahoo. SwisterTwister talk 05:14, 9 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. —Tom Morris (talk) 08:07, 9 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete yes he appeared in notable TV series... as "hippie #2" and "fratboy #4". Wikipedia doesn't do spear carriers. Totnesmartin (talk) 12:38, 9 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: complete lack of sources to establish notability. Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 14:09, 9 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
~~Delete~~: No significant coverage. Minor roles. Joe Chill (talk) 22:18, 9 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Changed to Keep: He had a major role in a notable video game and hosts a notable television series. I am satisfied, but I may just not be very picky when it comes to WP:ENT. Joe Chill (talk) 18:22, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Lack of notability described above. Delete per WP:NotJustYet. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 02:10, 10 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Note that this had been AfD'ed six minutes after I'd restored it from PROD, with no explanation forthcoming by the nominator as to why he didn't allow time for promised improvements to be made. Hatton has had at least one current lead role that is not reflected in the article in its current state, described reliably and non-trivially here. That role was disclosed on my talk page during the PROD restoration request, but was not mentioned by the nominator. It may be that he's not ultimately notable yet, but the poor sportsmanship of the insta-nom without disclosing new sources troubles me. Jclemens (talk) 05:56, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Nominator comment Despite the editor's concern about speed I saw this comment and as per WP:BEFORE I investigated. There is no article on In the Qube and IMDb shows that he was the host for 2 episodes. Even if this counted as a notable role WP:ENTERTAINER requires multiple major roles. Tassedethe (talk) 13:57, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - The original PROD contestor has now added sources to the article, which indicate 3 additional RS'es in addition to the one I mentioned above. Thus, the question is not whether he meets ENTERTAINER, but whether he meets the GNG for coverage. Again, it's far from assured that that standard has been met, but every !vote prior to this one was made without reference to the source I found or the additional three added to the article by the requesting editor. Since the content has so substantially changed, I've contacted every above !voter and asked them to reconsider their position. Jclemens (talk) 18:05, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - In the Qube has no article = It is notable and could be created. Host of two episodes = since multiple articles mention him as the host, I think that it is safe to assume that IMDB just wasn't updated. I don't find the sources enough to meet WP:GNG, but enough to meet WP:ENT. Joe Chill (talk) 18:28, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep the show hosting and the sources for that are enough for me. Totnesmartin (talk) 18:35, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator comment re updated article. I don't find the additional sources particularly persuasive. The Variety ref is a brief article about an upcoming TV show that mentions him.[1]. The Designtaxi ref is about the designers of the show that mentions him briefly.[2]. The OnScreenAsian ref is a brief article about the upcoming TV show which mentions him briefly.[3] The sum total of these mentions: "Hosted by Maria Sansone and Tom Hatton"; "The concept behind the television show was to place hosts Maria Sansone and Tom Hatton within an actual 3D environment"; "Hosted by Maria Sansone (LX TV New York, TV Guide Channel, PopTub on YouTube) and Tom Hatton (Law & Order SVU, Life on Mars)". As already noted the Law & Order SVU and Life on Mars parts were Frat Boy #4 and Hippie #2. As to the video game that is sourced to IMDB. The List of Grand Theft Auto: The Ballad of Gay Tony characters article doesn't show any character of that name (British Prince), nor any mention of the actor. I don't see how this can be regarded as a major part. (In the IMDB listing[4] this part comes just below Hotdog Vendor). I see no need to change my nomination. Tassedethe (talk) 19:57, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I was notified that the article had been improved and invited to look at it again. When there, I went ahead and wikilinked some of the terms within and added the actor's filmography. In consideration, he has had a few un-named descriptive roles in a few productions: Hippie #2, Frat Boy #4, Mystery Guest Poker player, and British Prince (voice) do not meet WP:ENT. He did host 2 episodes of In the Qube, but IMDB only lists 2 episodes and notability of that series is not established. Even IF that series were determined as notable, that would still make only 1 notable production for which his role "might" be seen as significant. I am discounting all other roles where his role was simply a descriptive rather than a named character. His minor work can be verified, but he does not have reliable sources that speak about him in any detail: Design Taxi about In the Qube has only one sentence that simply mentions Hatton. The Variety article is about the Animax series, TheOn Screen Asia story about In the Qube simply states that he hosts. The Flicker page contains photographs. The Nominetwork (page 9) shows a picture of him as a fashion model. The Variety artcile about Animax simply confirms him as host and says nothiong else about the individual. The article also uses both IMDB and a personal website for sourcing. My opinion has not changed. Fails GNG. Fails ENT. Fails BIO. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 20:31, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for taking the time for that analysis; I substantially agree with it. My point in arguing for the retention isn't to artificially inflate the article subject's notability, but rather to give it a fair trial in a way that the nominator seemingly went out of his way to avoid. As near as I can tell, the PROD contestor is actually Mr. Hatton himself or someone else closely associated, who's doing his honest best to make this article meet notability guidelines. I don't disagree that he's probably not there yet, but I do want to give him props for trying to work within our framework. I don't like Wiki-bullies who use process to obstruct misguided but sincere efforts like this. Jclemens (talk) 00:39, 12 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Consensus is unclear. Rather than closing as no-consensus (which was a possibility), I've given this the benefit of doubt and relisted it for further comments. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Wifione _.......^{Leave a message} 02:47, 16 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.