Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tofan Pirani

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Although numerous, none of the "keep" arguments are substantive 78.26 _{(spin me / revolutions)} 14:40, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Tofan Pirani[edit]

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an advertisement of a non notable athlete fails WP:GNG. MMA Kid (talk) 19:05, 23 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2021 August 25. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 22:18, 25 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep because we have found out he fought for the WKN world title. https://www.fightermag.se/2013/01/17/varldsmastar-titelmatch-i-k1-tungvikt-for-wkn-for-supremacy-league/ .karellian-24 (talk) 10:01, 26 August 2021 (UTC)— .karellian-24 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:00, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:00, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sweden-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:00, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Iran-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:00, 26 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

~~Keep, per .karellian-24 above. I really don't see what would be promotional about the current article? /Julle (talk) 20:54, 26 August 2021 (UTC)~~ Concinved by the source review below. Would be happy to supporting keeping, but the statements need to be able to be verified. /Julle (talk) 18:36, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep There is enough news coverage about him. Wasraw (talk) 05:21, 27 August 2021 (UTC)— Wasraw (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: There has been no discussion as to whether the sources in the article or the presented sources are actually GNG - so let's have this more thoroughly discussed...
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 01:02, 2 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. The 2013 source given above is routine match hype with no in-depth coverage of the subject. The fact that no one has uncovered discussion of the actual match is a pretty good clue that either it didn't happen or it wasn't important enough to report on. No other GNG sources have been provided. JoelleJay (talk) 18:34, 3 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I can find no evidence that the WKN title fight between Pirani and Dasic ever occurred. The Swedish fight magazine that announced the fight and later promoted ticket sales has no listing of the fight results. Additional evidence that the announced fight probably never occurred is that Pirani lost to Bob Sapp (his only victory in a string of 14 kickboxing fights) on February 2 of that year and had to withdraw from that fight because of he hurt his leg kicking Sapp. That was just 3 weeks before the proposed title fight was to occur. The burden of proof is on those who claim notability, so unless someone can provide proof from a reliable source that this fight actually occurred, I have to vote to delete this article because there is nothing else that shows Pirani is WP notable. Papaursa (talk) 14:12, 6 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I think the coverage and titles are enough to show notability. He won WKN Asian Championship in 2016. He won WBL Asian Championship in 2019. He has defeated Stefan Leko in WKO K Legend 2014. He has defeated Jorgen Himmerstal in K-1 Scandinavia 2002. Also the Persian media covered his fights. Moreover, the result of AFDs in French and Persian Wikipedia was "Keep" without any deletion votes. Ali Pirhayati (talk) 15:38, 6 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

What happens at other WP sites has no impact on English WP since they may have different notability criteria. The titles you mention don't meet WP:NKICK and notability isn't derived from your competitors. Can you reference significant independent coverage of him that isn't routine sports reporting to show WP:GNG is met? Do you have any evidence he actually fought for the WKN world championship? Papaursa (talk) 18:37, 6 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Papaursa No, they don't have different criteria. I think two Asian championships are enough for notability. The sources are also abundant. [1], [2], [3]. I want .karellian-24 to participate in the ongoing discussion. Ali Pirhayati (talk) 12:06, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You're wrong if you think different language WPs all have the same notability criteria. The new sources you list qualify as routine sports reporting, not significant coverage. Repeating the same source doesn't make him any more notable and your opinion about what's notable is less important than the actual existing WP notability criteria. Papaursa (talk) 12:35, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

He fought for the world title twice, and not just once. If you want to google it it' enough. Plus he doesn't lack coverage. Regards, KarelRo .karellian-24 (talk) 13:44, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I found two cases where he was scheduled to fight and pulled out due to injuries, but no world championship results for him from an organization that is listed at WP:NKICK. I asked for verification before and still haven't seen any. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but my searches didn't find it. Since GNG trumps SNG (which just provides a presumption of notability), I'll also settle for significant independent coverage (which is not fight results and announcements). Papaursa (talk) 18:20, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Papaursa [4], [5] and [6] are sources showing that he had fought for the world title. Ali Pirhayati (talk) 19:42, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry, but all of those are fight announcements, not results. In addition, Shin Do and the Thai World Cup are not on the list at WP:NKICK. The other one is the one where he got injured against Sapp 3 weeks before the bout. Papaursa (talk) 00:59, 8 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Papaursa (talk) 18:20, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Papaursa [7], [8] and [9]Can You please get your facts right before you write . This is the Second time you mentioned this regarding he’s leg injury before the title fight.He fought Bob sapp feb 2002 and the title fight was feb 2003 so that’s one year after Martial.Arts21 (talk) 08:03, 8 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

And here is the link. So stop please write personal opinions.

You are correct about the date. I was wrong about that, but not about him being Sapp's only victory in a string of 14 matches. That's hardly a show of dominance. Your failure to provide any reliable proof of notability means your view is opinion, while mine is based of WP notability criteria. Papaursa (talk) 12:17, 8 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Delete No evidence of significant coverage in reliable sources. The sources available in the article are either not significant or not reliable. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 06:22, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Move to draft Respecting all the above opinions, according to the WP:News sources, there is no source in the reputable news/media of Iran or Sweden. It seems more like he is fighting for fun. Respect the rules of Wikipedia and real martial artist, better the page move to WP:Drafts for add credible sources. Sincerely MMA Kid (talk) 06:27, 8 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Keep because He’s been fighting in some of the biggest organisation around the world He is a former amateur world champions and European champions and he’s a current Wkn and WBL Asian champion and he is a former member of the Swedish national team in Muaythai And there is a enough sources and information about him online in In many credible Sources WKN world title. https://www.fightermag.se/2013/01/17/varldsmastar-titelmatch-i-k1-tungvikt-for-wkn-for-supremacy-league/ Martial.Arts21 (talk) 08:20, 8 September 2021 (UTC)— Martial.Arts21 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Brand new editor and he's the third one to mention the same article. A fight announcement is not proof the fight actually took place. Where is your evidence he meets WP:NICK or WP:GNG? Restating the same claims of events that fail to meet WP:NKICK, and the failure to provide significant sources, seems to indicate there's difficulty in making a claim of WP notability for Pirani. Papaursa (talk) 12:17, 8 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Tofan pirani is one of the biggest names in Sweden as a kickboxing He was the first swedish fighter ever competed in k-1 Japan and since then he’s been fighting all around the world In major organisations — Preceding unsigned comment added by L.m.johansson (talk • contribs) 11:03, 7 September 2021 (UTC)— L.m.johansson (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Delete Fails WP:NSPORT and WP:GNG.4meter4 (talk) 02:25, 10 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Papaursa, Julle, JoelleJay, Eggishorn, 4meter4. Pirani has two Asian championships and at least one European championship. I think the continental titles can amount to fighting for a world title. Although we don't have sources for the world title matches, there are several sources which show that he has been qualified for the world title ([10], [11], [12], [13]). Also there are numerous sources which cover his fights: coverage by Fighter Magazine, coverage by FIGHTMAG, coverage by WKN. The coverage is so extensive that his career and biography can be written by reliable independent sources (we have such detailed sources as this about his life). This source says that he has a prominent role in Iranian kickboxing success. Then I think GNG is met for him. Ali Pirhayati (talk) 07:11, 10 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Please attention the sources required for Kickboxer, Iranian news sources and Swedish news sources. There is not even one of them here. It seems WP:Vandalism is taking place on this page. Novice accounts try to disrupt the poll. I think it is better to use WP:CSD G2. Regards. MMA Kid (talk) 09:19, 10 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep because we have found out he fought for the WKN world title. https://www.fightermag.se/2013/01/17/varldsmastar-titelmatch-i-k1-tungvikt-for-wkn-for-supremacy-league And has a resume on reputable sites https://www.tapology.com/fightcenter/fighters/101234-tofani-pirani-persian-warrior https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/913204

http://k-1sport.de/en/database/show_fighter.php?id=417

His Wikipedia in Persian: https://fa.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/طوفان_پیرانی

News on Iranian sites: https://khabarrazmavar.ir/?p=728 Amiir.masterr (talk) 09:37, 10 September 2021 (UTC)— Amiir.masterr (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

The ISNA link is not about him. The subject of article must be about him to be cited. The Khabar Razmavar also not on the Iranian news sources. Persian Wikipedia is based on English Wikipedia. If the English Wikipedia is deleted, it will also be nominated for deletion. However, we are only discussing the English page here. Regards. MMA Kid (talk) 11:22, 10 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment This is getting ridiculous. Another new user claiming the same fight announcement article as proof of Pirani's world championship credentials. Appearing in databases does not show significant independent coverage nor does the article about Hoost. I hope an admin closes this soon, but I'm done waiting for people to provide actual proof of notability and making up their own criteria. Papaursa (talk) 11:56, 10 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Dear ones, please give your opinion and do not insult anyone Managers see these comments. Amiir.masterr (talk) 15:38, 10 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Papaursa, There is other brand new. How is it possible that an athlete with all these claimed titles does not even have a credible source according based on WP:News sources? It is deserve WP:CSD G2 tag as soon as possible. Regards. MMA Kid (talk) 16:27, 10 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You can see the titles of this boxer on the following site: https://www.tapology.com/fightcenter/fighters/101234-tofani-pirani-persian-warrior

And a few videos of his struggles on YouTube: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MPXGV5Fz4aQ https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IJvO2M6I3jQ https://m.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=-8Xz8FpJib8 Amiir.masterr (talk) 17:51, 10 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note to closer it is likely that WP:SOCKPUPPETRY or WP:MEAT is occurring in the voting at this AFD.4meter4 (talk) 18:22, 10 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom and Eggishorn: sources either not significant or not reliable. Arguments on the support side revolve around "he was covered in X (non-reliable) source", "he is one of the most famous X in Y" (sure...), "he competed against X" (so what), "he won X championship" (which is so obscure that it wouldn't be passing notability criteria itself), etc. Article looks promotional. Agree with above comment as well. 4meter4 you double !voted btw. :) — Alalch Emis (talk) 21:18, 10 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for catching that. I had a brain slip and forgot I had commented earlier. I removed it.4meter4 (talk) 21:54, 10 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom, for failing notability guidelines. YouTube videos and sock/meat puppeting, while not part of the notability guidelines, are another strong indication to me that at the very least it is WP:TOOSOON. Ifnord (talk) 00:58, 11 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comment He’s name is been mentioned in some of the most credible pages . Such as , Foxsportnews USA , Dubai news ( Dubai ) , expressen in ( Sweden ) and Razmavar ( Iran ), Fighter magazine ( Sweden and Australia ), Fightmag ( Latvia ) and so on. How can someone claim that those sources are no credible! Amiir.masterr (talk) 04:44, 11 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, as per Eggishorn. MrsSnoozyTurtle 05:42, 12 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Fails GNG. No Great Shaker (talk) 05:03, 13 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Fails GNG. GameRCrom (talk) 15.03, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.