Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Three Rooms Press

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Notability has not been proven, and is not conferred through a walled garden. Ironholds (talk) 00:40, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Three Rooms Press[edit]

Three Rooms Press (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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No indication of notability; sources either don't mention the publisher at all or provide only passing mentions. Was prodded; prod removed by author without improvement. Huon (talk) 05:05, 4 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Literature-related deletion discussions. czar · · 05:22, 4 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States-related deletion discussions. czar · · 05:22, 4 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions. czar · · 05:23, 4 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment If someone can confirm that the books are available internationally, then I might consider a weak keep; in its absence, I'm sitting on the fence. --JB Adder | Talk 15:14, 4 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment International availability of their products is not at all relevant to the requirements of WP:N, Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 16:46, 5 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom, Notability is not established. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 16:46, 5 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Three Rooms Press is notable because of its products. (1)it has published books by several notable individuals listed in first paragraph of section titled "Publication History." Several of the citations include news articles announcing these publications mentioning Three Rooms a the publisher as well as establishing the notability of the authors, (2) one of the two annuals of the press is now archived in the Museum of Modern Art Periodical and Recording Libraries. A link to MoMA archive catalog cited. (3) Book Reviews are listed, include a review of Mike Watt's book in the Los Angeles Review of Books.

GetDaFacts (talk) 03:12, 6 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment I reviewed over 30 similar articles currently included about small literary presses. Most cite the publishers website as primary source and include no third party citations. The measuring stick needs to be consistent. In addition to articles, there are a lot of stubs. What is the criteria for inclusion as a stub.

GetDaFacts (talk) 03:21, 6 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment The books published by Three Rooms Press are available internationally. See Amazon's UK site. I just searched for the press and found their books. [1]

GetDaFacts (talk) 03:30, 6 May 2013 (UTC) Comment See citation (4)regarding Nassau County's first poet laureate, George Wallace "He is author of 24 chapbooks of poetry, published in the US, UK and Italy, including Poppin Johnny (Three Rooms Press, NY 2009)..."; citation (9) from Boston Globe "Next week, author Michael T. Fournier will bring his band Dead Trend to New York City to promote his new book. That’s right, book, not album. You see, despite Dead Trend being the quintessential 1980s hardcore punk band, they don’t actually exist. Or didn’t, that is, until recently, when the band crawled off of the pages of the Belchertown author’s new novel, “Hidden Wheel” (Three Rooms Press)."; citation(15) regarding Mike Watt's new book the name of the press is in the title of David Luhrssen's article "On and Off Bass (Three Rooms Press), by Mike Watt"; citation(16) "The occasion of the conversation was the release of a catalogue (On and Off Bass, available from Three Rooms Press) of Watt’s digital photographs of the San Pedro waterfront which were displayed in a gallery on the West Coast not too long ago."; citation(18)"Mike Watt (of the Minutemen, fIREHOSE, and the Stooges) is releasing the memoir Mike Watt: On and Off Bass in May via Three Rooms Press. The book will feature his nature photography and tour diaries."[reply]

Maybe my error was including too many other citations, so that these were lost in the shuffle. GetDaFacts (talk) 04:04, 6 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep - Have found reviews for several books and articles about some of the authors. An established book publisher with notable books/authors; passes WP:N. I have cleaned up the article some, reorganized, removed duplicate ref, and added a source. AuthorAuthor (talk) 22:24, 6 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The last time I checked, WP:N said this: "If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to satisfy the inclusion criteria for a stand-alone article or stand-alone list." Which of the independent sources covers the publisher in any detail? None do. All MTV has to say about Three Rooms Press is this: "Shortly thereafter, the folks at Three Rooms Press decided to publish a book out of the exhibit, and culled diary excerpts and poems from the massive, 1,500-page collection of musings on HootPage.com..." That's a passing mention, not significant coverage. The closer we get to actual facts about the company, the more we have to rely on primary sources and blogs, and even that is not enough to avoid WP:OR and WP:SYN. Also, notability is not inherited; publishing the books of notable authors doesn't make the publisher notable. Huon (talk) 22:55, 6 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • CommentReviewing [WP:N]

I read "Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention but it need not be the main topic of the source material."

Several articles about the authors are about their new books from Three Room Press. There would be no article about the author unless they had a new book out. The press is mentioned as the publisher. If TRP didn't publish their book then no article would exist to be cited. The primary subject is a book -- a product of TRP. For instance The Rumpus writes "The occasion of the conversation was the release of a catalogue (On and Off Bass, available from Three Rooms Press) of Watt’s digital photographs of the San Pedro waterfront ..."

Also I've included several 3rd party sources that are not personal blogs. Personal blogs are not the primary source of information. I've cited articles from various news zines and a couple literary journals:

  • The Pedestal Magazine
  • The Quarterly Conversation
  • Long Island Pulse Magazine
  • Los Angeles Review of Books
  • Rocker: The Lifestyle Magazine for Mature Rockers
  • Now.
  • Pitchfork
  • The Boston Globe
  • Explain.CA
  • The Rumpus

GetDaFacts (talk) 05:14, 7 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"Publishing is the process of production and dissemination of literature, music, or information — the activity of making information available to the general public." Articles covering book releases are covering an essential part of publishing. Note these articles are not simply book release announcements they are author interviews and book reviews.

with regards to MTV, production includes editing so article discussing the publisher's selection is hitting on another essential part of a book publisher's activity. GetDaFacts (talk) 05:39, 7 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete - in reality this article is purely promotional, while much of it is not about the company at all. The few notable authors allegedly published by the company are unproven or of questionable importance. I'm not aware of a notability guideline for book publishers, but companies generally aren't conferred notability because of their products. Fails WP:GNG and WP:NCORP. Sionk (talk) 16:17, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure what your comment "notable authors allegedly published by" the company refers to. Either they were, or they were not. According to worldcat, they were. AuthorAuthor (talk) 14:26, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The list was unsourced. The sentence is fairly self explanatory, They were allegedly notable too. Sionk (talk) 14:42, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep This article is about a notable small literary press. The article includes the typical information about book publishers found in Wikipedia. To start, a brief history of when, where, who founded; followed by information about their notable authors and publications. Several 3rd party sources are cited and listed including book reviews and new articles.

First Suffolk County Poet Laureate is notable. This is a prestigious award. Poet Laureate of Riker's with NY Times Article is notable. Vice President Editorial of major dance industry publication is notable. Founder of Minute Men rock back in notable. etc. Two of the authors are in the news with article about their book from TRP. One headline even includes TRP. One of their publication in archived in MoMA library collection. MoMA is an internationally regarded museum. GetDaFacts (talk) 05:12, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

  • Why can't this page be redirected to a list of publishers? They must satisfy WP:NOTESAL as a group, and that allows for the inclusion of individually non-notable items in lists. James500 (talk) 19:43, 10 May 2013 (UTC) Where an article cites a book, we don't really want the publisher to be a redlink if it is possible to avoid that, because we want to know, amongst other things, that the publisher is not a vanity press. James500 (talk) 19:49, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Although the information provided on this page is provided by Three Rooms Press, its actual inclusion in Poets & Writers' listings for small presses seems to be based on objectively assessed criteria ("we do confirm that each publisher adheres to our standards for inclusion"). I suggest that Three Rooms Press should be included in and redirected to List of small presses on the strength of that, if it is not established to be independently notable. James500 (talk) 20:58, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • I oppose the outright deletion of this article. James500 (talk) 21:42, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment the source of the much of the information included about subject is not available from the subject webpage or blog. For instance a list of books was gather from WorldCat and Amazon. Information regarding the contents of the annual Maintenant 7 was garnished from a physical copy of the book. 67.85.159.0 (talk) 20:35, 11 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Userfy, for (possible) inclusion in a list of small publishers. Article's subject does not meet WP:CORPDEPTH: "Trivial or incidental coverage of a subject is not sufficient to establish notability". As for reducing the article to a stub, the notability guideline makes no distinction for article size. Miniapolis 13:39, 14 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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