Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Three Chords and the Truth (song)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. After two relists, participants are all over the map here, Keep, Delete, Redirect, Merge. No penalty against a future AFD or changing the article through editing work. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:44, 6 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Three Chords and the Truth (song)[edit]

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Sources fail to establish independent notability. Previous PROD was removed by User:Ficaia claiming the article "seems to have been reviewed and commented upon" without linking to any such review (which I could not find myself), pinging here to hear a full explanation of that/potential counterargument to deletion. Similar PROD for Shame About That was also removed but that article was converted to a redirect to the album, I would support that move here as well. QuietHere (talk) 15:39, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. QuietHere (talk) 15:39, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect: I was mistaken. The reviews were of the album not the song. My bad. Ficaia (talk) 15:44, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Ohhhh, I thought you were referring to a WP discussion about/previous edit history of the article. That explains it, thank you. QuietHere (talk) 15:59, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Footnote: Shame About That has been unredirected, will be starting an AFD for that momentarily. QuietHere (talk) 18:47, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, charted on Billboard, sources discuss the song at length. WP:SIGCOV is passed here. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 23:12, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I removed the sources that I reflected on and found questionable. Found two sources from Billboard magazine itself saying that it "was ranked among Billboard's "Most-Played Video Clips" in August 1997." In a separate article I discovered, "It was nominated by the Music Video Production Association for Country Video of the Year, according to Billboard." Like I said with Sara's other singles, this song exemplifies her early career persona as a traditionally-minded country vocalist. The reader needs examples of notable songs that further explain this to better understand her career. It also one of Evans's self-penned tracks. This is an important descriptor to her as an artist indicating that she has several skill sets adding to her credibility as an artist. ChrisTofu11961 (talk) 00:35, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The two sources you added both only mention the music video (not even the song itself) in rankings or in passing in prose. Those aren't focused on the subject matter and still don't resolve the issue of notability. And this argument you've made on all of these makes no sense to me; why can't these things be discussed on the album article? That one's just barely hanging on at the moment as is (I only didn't PROD it because I found that two-sentence Entertainment Weekly review that I added), but if you've got all this info about the songs on the album why can't those be there? Surely with their powers combined we can make one notable album article. This "the reader needs examples" bit doesn't preclude that. QuietHere (talk) 00:53, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Again, you are not in the majority here. Also, I do not think you should have any business explaining notability for a subject you are not knowledgeable in. This is clear from your response above. ChrisTofu11961 (talk) 01:06, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  - Please be civil. Lamona (talk) 01:10, 17 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Billboard charted single with reviews. DonaldD23 talk to me 00:56, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Meets notability with chart appearance on Billboard. Seems to be enough independent sources. --Caldorwards4 (talk) 03:12, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Footnote: I've posed a query about this song's chart run at WT:SONGS, hoping to clear up my own apparent confusion at some of the policy in question. I'd prefer to see a consensus established there before this closes, if that's allowed, as it may have a significant effect on this AFD's outcome. Thank you for your patience. QuietHere (talk) 05:57, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete While the song itself charted, I see no detailed coverage of the song itself in any of the supplied sources and because it carries the name of the album, finding coverage of it was more difficult. Unless the previous !voters can show some of those sources that discuss the song's coverage, their opinions should be discounted. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:11, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

One of the sources is a Billboard review of the single itself, which is significant coverage. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 18:49, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete A number 44 peak on a genre-specific chart is not really notable, nor is a music video receiving airplay on a country music TV channel. Album reviews that describe the song don't establish notability. Yes there is one Billboard review of the single itself, but there is nothing that cannot be adequately said by expanding the album article (which is currently start-class). Heartfox (talk) 06:41, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Pinging Sammi Brie (talk · contribs), @Hog Farm:, @Martin4647: for their expertise. Also if kept, I think the article should be renamed Three Chords and the Truth (Sara Evans song) since Chase Rice also has a song of the same name. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 18:49, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm getting SIGCOV, but mostly for the album as a whole, which makes me think a redirect is merited: Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 19:48, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

a 1999 Entertainment News Wire report which notes the album had "critical acclaim but no airplay" and prompted Evans to rethink her strategy: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/99809290/
a review in the Dallas Morning News (republished) which also mentions its airplay problems: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/99809393/
a review in The Tennessean: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/99809555/

Keep Meets WP:NSONG per above arguments. Sources presented above are reliable enough IMV. SBKSPP (talk) 00:28, 16 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Not sure it meets the notability standards for the charting, but it's gained enough critical review/discussion to pass notability otherwise.Oaktree b (talk) 01:14, 16 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment When I click on the source listed as Coleman, Kathy. "Sara Evans – Three Chords and the Truth CD review". About.com I am taken to an article about a Faith Evans. This may have to do with the change in ownership and name of about.com, but if anyone has access to the original source, please make the needed change. Lamona (talk) 02:17, 17 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I'm not finding significant sources for this song, and having checked the sources in the article many did not verify the statements in the article, and two are dead links. If there is SIGCOV for the album then a redirect to the article for the album would make sense, although the name of the album and this song are close enough that that might not be necessary. However, the sources mentioned above are not in that article, and it definitely needs them. p.s. The Allmusic link in this article is to a search on the song title, and it turns up a whole host of other songs and albums with this or a similar title. If you are searching you may need to dig down to make sure that you've hit the Sara Evans song. Lamona (talk) 02:17, 17 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Three Chords and the Truth (Sara Evans album)/Delete. No automatic notability without significant sources – sources are about the album as a whole. Reywas92^Talk 14:20, 18 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 14:00, 22 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/True Lies (song), another song off this album, was closed as "keep". Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 14:41, 22 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ASTIG️🙃 _{(ICE-T • ICE CUBE)} 14:01, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to the parent album page. About.com was deemed not a reliable source at WP:RSN at the discussion here. References to about.com have generally been removed from the majority of music articles particularly those at GA-level. While charting can indicate notability, WP:NSONGS does state "probably" but it must be backed up by other coverage. At this stage merge to the album page is a better option. ≫ Lil-Unique1 -{ Talk }- 00:35, 2 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.