Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/ThermaHelm
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. Sandstein 06:06, 19 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
ThermaHelm[edit]
- ThermaHelm (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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A fringe non-notable company/product. They claim to offering something new and revolutionary, yet the product is barely in production - it still seems to be at the prototype stage as helmets take 16 weeks to produce. There are some references - one a patent application (which anyone can do), two from the company itself (the Sussex Innovation Centre) and one from the Daily Mail which looks like a press-release reprint. Yet there are none from motorcycle-related publications which is where you would expect a new and revolutionary motorcycle helmet to be reported and featured. The Daily Mail website mentions July 2010 as the launch of a cheaper version of the helmet, yet that is not apparent on the company's website - yet more evidence that this is a minor league product/company that launched with a big splash and has faded to nothing. Bottom line - the company itself would fail the notability test, and I can see no reason why the product itself is notable enough to keep this article. Biker Biker (talk) 16:30, 11 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
KEEP. "fringe" is not the correct way to describe start-up companies. If they'd been around for years and achieved nothing, then maybe. As far as "offering something new and revolutionary", most would argue that these words applied tightly to a British innovation in the form of a motorcycle helmet with an endothermic reactor that cooled your brain on impact, let alone it's ability to call emergency services and transmit riders' GPS coordinates. The helmet is not "at prototype stage" just because it takes 12-16 weeks to make a bespoke, hand made carbon fibre and Kevlar helmet from the results of a fitting kit dispatched to buyers days after purchase (I brought one and thus know). The industry standard for bespoke CF helmets is 16 weeks from order to delivery, as set by 43.6% market leader Arai. The British patent is Granted; it is not possible for "anyone [to] do" that. The Daily Mail don't "reprint" articles and thus that article is genuine. Notoriety is prolific as the are literally thousands of articles on this innovation in the motorcycling and general press. Biker Biker removed links to 90% of them and then claimed there aren't any(?) Odd. In this month's (April 2011) Fast Bikes magazine, ThermaHelm's Halo helmet was ranked the best in a hands-on test of all the top helmets. Just because articles like these don't get distributed on the net by the publisher in order to keep printed readership up, does not mean articles on this product are not marking its notoriety daily. Despite this, a web search shows 57,000 results. Spendthrift Biker Biker then claims this university-based, life-saving innovation company has hoodwinked the public by not yet launching a less expensive version and has thus, in his opinion, has "faded to nothing" - despite totally selling out in 3 days of an 11 day show at the Carole Nash International Motorcycle Show in November last year, according to a Cisionwire news release. Hailypaige (talk) 07:17, 12 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Calling me a spendthrift, and any other name calling or personal attack will do nothing to further your cause and won't help you keep your article. --Biker Biker (talk) 07:23, 12 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
No personal attack made (unlike your unfactual and defamatory comments on the technology) just factual defense to your baseless comments. Hailypaige (talk) 07:41, 12 April 2011 (UTC) http://www.cisionwire.com/search-news-media/revolutionary-new-motorcycle-helmet-sells-out Hailypaige (talk) 10:02, 12 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Cisionwire.com is a self-published source i.e. it is a facility for companies to publish their own press releases. What is needed on Wikipedia is reliable and verifiable third party (ideally secondary) sources not corporate promotional material. --Biker Biker (talk) 10:20, 12 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ok...here we go...including some of those removed by Biker Biker - to which he now claims lack of notoriety and coverage in motorcycle press(??)
http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/technology/article80925.ece
DAILY UPDATED MOTORCYCLE NEWS WEBSITE: http://indianmotosblog.com/thermahelm-future-motorcycling-helmet
http://www.techmagnews.com/tag/helmet
DAILY BIKES NEWS AND REVIEWS: http://www.bikerzlane.com/12390/futuristic-helmet-design-thermahelm.html
http://articles.org/the-halo-by-thermahelm-the-science-of-cold/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXcF2Nxf5kA
http://www.geeky-gadgets.com/thermahelm-ice-pack-helmet-15-01-2010/
OBSESSIVE COVERAGE OF THE AUTO INDUSTRY: http://www.autoblog.com/2009/12/09/video-thermahelm-motorcycle-helmet-is-swell-err-not/
http://www.news-gazette.com/news/health/health-care/2011-03-27/doctors-move-forward-research-brain-cooling.html (mention near bottom)
INSURANCE COMPANIES: http://www.swinton.co.uk/motor/motorcycle/SpecialistBikeNews/ThermaHelm-'can-save-lives-by-cooling-the-brain'_19563004
Foreign:
Uzbekistan: http://www.webdev.uz/thermahelm-termoshlem-kotoryj-soxranit-zhizni-tysyacham-motociklistov-video/
Italy: http://www.diredonna.it/thermahelm-il-casco-salva-vita-5301.html
Greece: http://www.mototriti.gr/data/news/preview_news/79593.asp
Lithuania: http://www.techpill.lt/index.php/naujienos/alta-galva-su-thermahelm/
Netherlands: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXcF2Nxf5kA
China: http://hi.baidu.com/baby%D0%A1%BB%D2%BB%D2/blog/item/af24e40868f4caa42fddd4fe.html
...and on...and on. Google advises there are articles on this invention in 173 countries and 141 languages. Hailypaige (talk) 11:01, 12 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- My last comment before others have their say. There is a lot of rubbish among those links. Seasoned Wikipedians will recognise a lot of them are blogs and article/press-release republishers, with very very little in the way of reliable referenceable material, which is exactly why I removed those links from the article in the first place. The fact that a product or company exists does not make them notable. The fact that they have lots of coverage in some of the sites listed above is because they have a product that is interesting or novel, and again that does not make them notable, just good at PR. Wikipedia is not a place for companies to boost their profile and promote their products and right now that's exactly what this article looks like - company sponsored spam. --Biker Biker (talk) 11:58, 12 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Absolute rubbish. Wikipedians will likely not be fooled into backing you on this one. You have no real concept of logic in this regard whatsoever and really, really need some acuity on this topic. How on earth is a technology that is in the UK Trade & Investment's Global Entrepreneurs Programme marked as a Technology of Exceptional Potential not notable? In addition, being University-based means ALL - 100% - revenue goes to R&D. Thus, you cannot correctly call it a commercial product in the same vein as for-profit companies and truthfully, presence on Wikipedia is ZERO commercial benefit to the innovation when the Wiki article is totally buried several pages deep in a Google search. In any event, God forbid a rider find it here and choose a higher level of safety without pinching pennies on his life.
The above links point to vast Global journalistic interest in the one and only evolution-change in the redundancy of passive motorcycle helmets - that's why me and all my mates are wearing them. Why? Because ThermaHelm has brought us the first ACTIVE motorcycle helmet. Thus, the first real step-change in over 50 years. All other helmets are Passive/Dumb/sans anything but blunt technology to save lives. In fact, post-impact, they all work quickly to kill your brain cells by insulating your emissary capillaries so that your body cannot self-regulate its temperature.
If the cumulative Wiki community does not concur that this notable innovation is worthy of permeating the cognisance of intelligent bikers who reference Wikipedia, then feel free to remove. Hailypaige (talk) 13:43, 12 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep While some references are sketchy, I trust the Daily Mail and the Daily Tech as reputable news sources. I'm not sure though, but it's better to keep and article than to delete it. Bluefist talk 14:11, 12 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete In six months, or a year, a reputable source or two might give us something to work with on this topic. Or ThermaHelm will be forgotten. Currently, it's premature. Clearly this new helmet has made a big splash on some blogs, but that only creates a lot of noise to sift through. Sandbagging this discussion with links to unreliable blogs, plus more copies of press releasable even after it was pointed out that press releases are unhelpful, makes this process more work than it ought to be. The Daily Mail is not a serious newspaper, and the Daily Tech article is a brief, fluffy blog post. If ThermaHelm pans out, it will get coverage in good sources and we can re-create the article then. Keeping it now just creates someplace for links to sketchy sources to accumulate, for somebody else to have to come along and delete. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 04:51, 15 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep ~ There are verifiable evidence that the subject (ThermaHelm) has received significant attention, coverage and recognition by media, and not only in the UK but worldwide and in many languages. I think this is enough to support a claim of notability. However, the article about ThermaHelm requires to be expanded in a short time. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and each of its articles must be in an encyclopedic format. –pjoef (talk • contribs) 13:45, 15 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
NOTE: my suspicion that this article had been driven by commercial interests is made stronger by this post on the article's talk page by an editor who is being paid by the university to save the article. --Biker Biker (talk) 16:05, 18 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Brain cooling is a proven and recently approved medical salve. See Global, verifiable and non-bias news reports on the subject that the company has collected here: http://www.thermahelm.com/blog.html Hailypaige (talk) 19:48, 18 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- There are already articles on the subjects of cortical cooling and therapeutic hypothermia. It remains that the most reputable (if you call it reputable and I don't) coverage of ThermaHelm is in the Daily Mail. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 20:56, 18 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.