Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Windmill (hotdog stand)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep (non-admin closure), Notability proved — Nominator withdrawl. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 22:49, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Windmill (hotdog stand)[edit]

~~Non-notable Sillyfolkboy (talk) 18:42, 31 July 2008 (UTC)~~[reply]

Comment They do have a national hot dog eating contest, but I'm finding very few sources. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells• Otter chirps • HELP!)} 18:46, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Sillyfolkboy took offense that a reference was added to Bruce Springsteen's article about Max's Famous Hotdogs and The Windmill (hotdog stands). What Sillyfolkboy does not realize that both are iconic restaurants going back some time in Long Branch, New Jersey, have been publically mentioned by Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band.

As far as hotdog restaurants go, both establishments are signficant and worthy of mention (there are approximately 40 hot dog restaurants with articles on Wikipedia). Both Max's and the Windmill are variants of the Jersey Shore Kosher style hotdog and of the New Jersey style hotdog, which is widely recognized. As for the controversy between the Windmill and Max's, it was recognized by the New York Times. Queen of Dogs The deletion proposed by Sillyfolkboy is not warranted. AnibusHeatus (talk) 19:19, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

- That is how i came across the article in question but without citation that this hotdog stand is notable enough for a wikipedia entry then it puts the article (and links to it from other articles) on pretty shaky ground. Please don't feel offended - these are just things demanded of every article to ensure that it is verifiable and encyclopaedic. Thanks Sillyfolkboy (talk) 19:25, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  - Also, no part of the article comes from this New York Times piece. Besides, the main gist of the piece isn't about the stand but the argument over who is the official "Queen of the Hotdogs". This article should be much more helpful for writing a wikipedia entry. Please only add information that can be supported by sources. In fact if the article is rewritten using this source i may be convinced to remove my nomination for deletion. Thanks. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 19:42, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nomination. The notability of hot dog stand (even a notable one) might be a difficult thing to prove. Nonetheless, proof is necessary, and the burden of proof falls to whoever wants the article to stay. What type of hot dog their product is a variation of is irrelevant. The article also contains what seems to be original research. - House of Scandal (talk) 19:36, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a post from Bruce Springsteen and the E-Street Band specifically mentioning the Windmill. This is from the Windmill's website. Note the white out just before the mention of the Windmill, which is a reference to the Windmill's competition Max's. [[1]] Here is the New York Time's commenting on the controversy between The Windmill and Max's over Queen of Dogs title. [2] I would also encourage you to link on Wikipedia's list of hotdog restaurants. If the Windmill (which is an iconic shore hotdog restaurant) is not worthy of Wikipedia, are any of the listings (beyond perhaps Nathan's)? Think about it. AnibusHeatus (talk) 19:45, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Don't wrestle editors, wrestle articles. Rather than trying to prove how the article could be improved, improve it. - House of Scandal (talk) 19:49, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hard to prove notarity for wikipedia beyond what was done. I also note under Wikipedia Category:Hot Dog Restaurants, most are about the same level of detail and justification. Given write ups in the New York Times, mention by Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Bands materials, I think the case has been made. Deletion is not justified. AnibusHeatus (talk) 20:04, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please read WP:WAX. Just because we have an article on other hot dog stands doesn't inherently mean that this article is warranted. It's entirely possible that the article on the hot dog stand in Grand Blanc, Michigan isn't warranted, even if it did used to be an A&W. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells• Otter chirps • HELP!)} 20:19, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

With that in mind, weak keep per the sources that have been added to the article. The NY Times article about an empire built on hot dogs is definitely substantial coverage, but it would help if more like it could be found. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells• Otter chirps • HELP!)} 20:27, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I've added inline citations and a couple of sources. Kafziel ^{Complaint Department} 20:32, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I have added another source - an in-depth article on the company available here. Jim Miller (talk) 21:13, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The NYT article describes it as "part of Jersey Shore folklore". Good enough for me. Zagalejo^^^ 21:28, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Not Notable - every restaurant thinks it is special - this one is not Peoplearecool2008 (talk) 16:07, 12 September 2008 (UTC)Peoplearecool2008[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.