Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Stone of Losses

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Kept. Mark Arsten (talk) 00:59, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

NON-ADMIN CLOSURE

Seems to be strong Keep consensus--Jeffrd10 (talk) 16:20, 21 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The Stone of Losses[edit]

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

The only substantial references I can find to this phrase in scholarly literature are to a book of poetry by one T. Carmi who apparently does not have an article here. If I exclude the title of the book I get no GBook hits. I would expect some hits in either if this were a real thing. I would contemplate redirecting to the poet but lacking an article that isn't possible. Mangoe (talk) 23:38, 13 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: this is a (probably) bad translation of the Hebrew name (which I have forgotten, but should be able to find) of a well-known feature of the Temple Mount. הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 03:06, 14 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Found: the Hebrew name has two variants, אבן הטועים‎ Even haTo'im and אבן הטוען‎ Even haTo'en. הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 03:08, 14 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

What about English sources? Mangoe (talk) 03:17, 14 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't found any yet; I'm not sure what the standard translation is. The first variant roughly translates as "the Stone of the Lost"; I can't make sense out of the second variant.

As for Hebrew sources, metaphorical use of the Hebrew phrase as "a place (or book or service) to found something lost (or information, etc.)" greatly complicates searching, but that in itself should give an idea of how notable the topic probably is.

Also, here is a short chapter summarizing what is known about the Stone from traditional Jewish sources (originally published as הגאוגרפיה במשנה‎ [Geography in the Mishnah] by Ben-Zion Segal (1979), pp. 3–4 LCCN 79-952217). הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 03:22, 14 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

English variants found so far: (translating Even haTo'im) "Stone of Losses", "Stone of the Lost", "Stone of the Strayers", "Strayers' Stone"; (translating Even haTo'en) "Claimant's Stone", "Stone of the Claimant", "Announcing Stone". הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 03:27, 14 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Carmi seems to be the only source for this variant. According to what I can extrapolate from this snippet-view book it seems that this variant was invented by the translator of Carmi's works from Hebrew to English. הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 03:41, 14 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Israel-related deletion discussions. הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 03:44, 14 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletion discussions. הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 03:44, 14 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep and make the proper corrections to render it into correct current English, since User הסרפד (talk · contribs) seems to be lining up good scholarly sources for the term, although let's wait to see how he actually votes. IZAK (talk) 10:29, 16 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Don't delete, but I'm not sure what should be done. The stone in question is mentioned only twice in the Talmud, and once only in passing. In later literature it is referred to many times, but again only in passing. The only in-depth source I could find is Segal. I think a merge would be more appropriate, but to which page? Also, I cannot find any standard English translation of the term. הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 14:43, 16 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I suggest to post it on the Judaism notice board to get more visibility instead of rushing to merge. --Shuki (talk) 21:28, 20 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Strictly speaking, Shuki, that's what Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Judaism is for, but many Wikiproject Judaism noticeboard regulars are apparently not aware of WP:DELJEW's existence. הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 01:04, 21 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.