Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Monsters in the Morning (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was The Monsters in the Morning withdrawn, no consensus on Songs of The Monsters in the Morning. Only one of the !votes specifies which article they were talking about, of the two that were nominated. I cannot determine a separate consensus for each article on that basis. No prejudice against renominating the "Songs of..." article separately. —Darkwind (talk) 03:05, 28 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The Monsters in the Morning[edit]

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Local radio show in Orlando. Fails WP:SIGCOV. Formerly simulcast over one of Clear Channel's leased XM channels (not particularly unique) -- XM has not aired show since Clear Channel sold its stake in the satellite company. Show formerly aired in Tampa; despite claim in article, unable to confirm if show ever aired in other markets. Three of eight sources report on exit of former co-host; one is of questionable reliability; one is on former co-host's career after the show; two I added myself to confirm that show no longer airs on XM. Only other online source I could find reports on host's stepson finding whale bones on a beach. Note that this show is not local TV show of the same name which briefly aired in Chicago. Propose delete, but open to redirecting to WTKS-FM. Levdr1lp / talk 09:08, 4 January 2014 (UTC) Withdrawn by nominator per anon IP's newly found sources. Note that I am only withdrawing nom for the show -- I still propose deleting the Songs article, but per RadioFan, open to redirecting to the show article. And for the record, I like Lady Gaga. Levdr1lp / talk 20:15, 18 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I am also nominating the following related page because it has absolutely no evidence of notability:

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Radio-related deletion discussions. Levdr1lp / talk 09:16, 4 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Doesn't seem particularly notable. Not syndicated or anything. Just another routine show that radio is obliged to generate to fill air time.
Songs don't seem to be commercially published. No indication of sales. No WP:RS or any footnotes, for that matter! Student7 (talk) 15:27, 4 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Florida-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:52, 4 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:53, 4 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete As I said in the previous nom, this is an average-rated morning show in an average market lucky enough to get on XM; whether that program was popular though on XM...another story with no numbers at all as its channel was far away from XM's prime real estate and wasn't promoted, and CC isn't breaking out iHeartRadio numbers anytime soon either. The unnotable list of promotional CD's/garden variety song parodies also can be deleted. Nate • (chatter) 20:43, 4 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Nothing has changed since the last nomination. The show ~~continues to be~~was simulcast nationally on XM Satellite radio which does not have rating information available so we really have no reliable information on ratings. There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources including local newspapers as well as trade papers to demonstrate notability. However Songs of The Monsters in the Morning does not meet notability guidelines and should be merged into Monsters in the Morning RadioFan (talk) 21:13, 4 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment XM pulled the Clear Channel-programmed stations three months back besides a few highlight stations, which included Extreme Talk; all those services are now iHeartRadio exclusive, giving this show the 'national' reach of any station on IHR, that is you have to specifically find or it has to be promoted to appear. Nate • (chatter) 22:29, 4 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

RadioFan is right (in a way). Nothing has changed since the last nomination -- this show didn't have significant coverage last July, and it still doesn't have significant coverage now. Per WP:SIGCOV, "Multiple publications from the same author or organization are usually regarded as a single source for the purposes of establishing notability." -- in this case, the Orlando Sentinel (three sources = one). RadioFan-- if you can find additional sources on the show itself, and not just local coverage on a co-host's departure, then please provide them. Levdr1lp / talk 01:35, 5 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, and Nate is absolutely correct. As of October 18, 2013, the show is not simulcast on XM. Levdr1lp / talk 01:44, 5 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment in addition to local coverage by the Orlando Sentinel there is regional coverage by the St. Petersburg Times, as well as coverage in industry news sources such as FMQB, RadioInsight and Talkers Magazine. Different articles, different authors, different organizations meeting WP:SIGCOV. Also, the show no longer being simulcast on XM does not impact notability here, notability is not temporary--RadioFan (talk) 23:47, 6 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Only one source in the article discusses the show in any detail, and it's the very same St. Petersburg Times piece you've referenced. Unfortunately, a single source, no matter how detailed, does not establish notability. The FMQB post isn't credited, and only consists of a few sentences on the show's cancellation in Tampa. There are two mentions of the show at the Talkers site, but both are on charity work and smell like they were lifted from press releases. And no one is suggesting notability is temporary -- length of time on the satellite service, however, as well as the nature of that run, are relevant. Dozens of Clear Channel shows aired on one or more of CC's leased space on XM from 2001 to 2013 -- none of those shows are particularly unique (or notable) for having done so, nor are they in any way on par w/ a Howard Stern or Opie and Anthony. More like on-air filler. Are we even able to verify just how long this show aired on XM? WP:NRVE. Levdr1lp / talk 04:04, 7 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Guerillero | My Talk 07:03, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. I can't find anything that amounts to WP:SIGCOV, so the subject appears the fail to meet WP:GNG. The media coverage appears to be almost entirely local, and such coverage as there is typically consists of nothing more than casual mentions. -- Rrburke (talk) 12:58, 16 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Coming here to say Delete --Tv's emory (talk) 15:45, 16 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, survived the first AFD, and as best I can tell nominator is spamming for votes. Jeepday (talk) 22:06, 17 January 2014 (UTC) retract I missed seeing my edits in the history. Jeepday (talk) 23:06, 17 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict)@Jeepday:-- You edited the article twice in 2008.[1][2]. As such, I contacted you, as well as any other contributor with any edits which weren't marked "minor" as logged by the AFD suggested website. I didn't contact any bots or any editors w/ only minor-marked edits (or any anon IPs). How is that spam? The first nomination resulted in "no consensus" after not one, but two relists. Now this second nomination has been relisted, so in addition to the participants of the first nomination, and only after the relist, I contacted all other non-exclusively-minor contributors... and no one else. If anything, I would expect the majority of contributors to favor keeping the article (I prefer deletion or redirect). Per AFD-- "One should not notify bot accounts, people who have made only insignificant 'minor' edits, or people who have never edited the article." I honestly never thought I was violating WP:CAN. Levdr1lp / talk 22:27, 17 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. The show may not be simulcast nationally now or even within its home state but its history is that it was at one time & should be kept.Stereorock (talk) 22:20, 17 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

All I really see here -- at least in terms of coverage -- is a local Orlando radio show. There is only one source which covers the subject in any detail -- the St. Petersburg Times article -- but even that does not mention the show's simulcast on XM. In fact, there doesn't appear to be any direct mention of the show's XM simulcast from a reliable source independent of the subject -- and there is nothing inherently notable about a radio show which aired on satellite radio. Clearly The Morning Mash Up on Sirius XM Hits 1 is a much more prominently-featured show on the satellite platform (it's also produced by the satellite company, rather than occupying Clear-Channel-leased space), but in terms of actual coverage from reliable, independent sources, it's no more notable than Monsters. Levdr1lp / talk 10:46, 18 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep only The Monsters (but delete the "Songs of..." stuff) per WP:NOTTEMPORARY and the refs here — Talk:The_Monsters_in_the_Morning#some_additional_WP:RS.2C_to_add_to_the_current_batch. I count four to eight WP:N and about a dozen WP:NOTEWORTHY from 2000 through 2014, not counting the radio-show itself from 1993or5 thru 2014+, which technically *is* itself actually WP:RS even though they're "just" a talk show. Some of us may wish that Lady Gaga were banished from the pages of the 'pedia, and that The Monsters weren't more wikiNotable than The Math, but that's not the way WP:GNG works. If the glove doesn't fit, you must a'keep.

p.s. Because the show was historically called The Monsters in the Mid-day from 1995-2004, and only switched to The Morning from 2005-2013 after Howard Stern battled the FCC, it might be worth moving/renaming the article to simply The Monsters (which is a straight redirect now). But I guess, even though the show is now off EXTREME XM and WXTB, they are still on WTKS, so maybe we should stick with the current name for now, as the one the readership is most likely to want. Hope this helps. 74.192.84.101 (talk) 19:37, 18 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

((sorry, missed the other thing the first time)) ...update, but delete the "Songs of..." stuff which is pure WP:SPIP, from what I can tell. Do not merge, and even I'd recommend wiping the table of CD releases from the parent article, as well, same reason. WP:NOTPROMOTION is a policy straight from pillar one, and nobody seems to have reviewed their albums, nor commented on any of their songs. We know the songs got radio-airplay, but in this case it was WP:ABOUTSELF airplay, which is not good enough methinks. WP:NOTEWORTHY means somebody independent, i.e. without a financial interest, thought the stuff was worth noting. Most of the cast-members are mentioned in the WP:RS coverage, but none of the parody-songs themselves (nor the albums for that matter) were ever brought up that I saw. HTH. 74.192.84.101 (talk) 22:41, 18 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete not notable as a single market show in a dying medium; sources that cover it are incidental mentions that fail to establish the breadth or depth of coverage required for notability BlueSalix (talk) 21:33, 19 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

As the original nominator, I would've agreed with you before the anon IP's source dump yesterday. But that was yesterday. Feel free to have a look at Talk:The_Monsters_in_the_Morning#some_additional_WP:RS.2C_to_add_to_the_current_batch. Levdr1lp / talk 23:06, 19 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, I did, however, I maintain my support for delete for reasons I stated. BlueSalix (talk) 23:14, 19 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as article now crosses the verifiability and notability thresholds thanks to recent updates. Still not sure my one edit from 5+ years ago made it worth notifying me of this discussion directly. - Dravecky (talk) 23:43, 19 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You were contacted b/c your edit was not marked "minor", as were all other registered contributors w/ any non-minor edits. In retrospect, it probably wasn't the best way to draw in additional input. Levdr1lp / talk 00:46, 20 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep It is the flagship show on WTKS, one of the few remaining stations of its kind (ie hot talk). It was Clear Channels flagship talk show on the entire XM-platform for many years. You can't find too many of these shows on terrestrial radio anymore on terrestrial radio, Rover in Cleveland, Bubba the love sponge in Tampa and the Monsters in Orlando.ericdxx

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.