Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Thai invasion of northern Malaya

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was DELETE. postdlf (talk) 13:11, 31 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thai invasion of northern Malaya[edit]

Thai invasion of northern Malaya (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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Was tagged for speedy deletion as a blatant hoax, but it doesn't seem blatant enough to be clear vandalism to me - it's not really sourced, and it may well be a hoax, but I think it needs discussion rather than speedy deletion. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 11:43, 25 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. —AustralianRupert (talk) 12:56, 25 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete as not true. Not only have I failed to find any suggestion elsewhere that Thai forces took an active part in the invasion of Malaya, the chronology does not stack up. Japan attacked Thailand and Malaya at the same time. After the Thai capitulation there was an agreement to aid Japan militarily, and Thailand did declare war on Britain on 25 January 1945 1942(slip). But by that time the Japanese were in occupation of northern Malaya. The northern Malay states were ceded by the Japanese to Thailand only in 1943. Any Thai military presence must therefore have been with the agreement of the Japanese occupying forces, and cannot be described as a Thai invasion. AJHingston (talk) 14:05, 25 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Articles about history should never be kept on Wikipedia without verifiable, reliable published sources, whether from a newspaper or a book. Certainly, the Japanese Invasion of Malaya has been recounted in published works many times over the years, many of which can now be reviewed on Google Books or Google News, so there would be no shortage of places to refer us to for even a single page describing an aggressive military campaign by the Royal Thai Army. I can't find any reference to a ship called "Thep Sakhon" anywhere. The French version of this article [1] was deleted. "Malaysia 1941: Thailand Wars", cited as a source, appears on Wikipedia mirror sites that parrot the "page 156" reference [2] but not in any bibliographies. There is a Chronos Press which does self-publishing. The Thai-language title leads to links to what appears to be a novel [3]. While I imagine that Thai/Siamese people participated in the occupation of Malaya, the idea of a joint military campaign, with Royal Thai units fighting independently, is something that would have to be supported by something verifiable. Mandsford 14:08, 25 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - I'm not a World War II historian and have no opinion as to the authenticity of this subject. I do note, however, that it is not preposterous on the face of it that Thai collaborators with the imperial Japanese Army would have participated in the invasion of Malaya in the hope of gaining territory for Thailand. Just because a subject is obscure in the English-language literature does not necessarily mean it never happened. Carrite (talk) 15:10, 25 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Can you provide any sources that verify that there were "Thai collaborators with the imperial Japanese Army" that participated in the invasion of Malaya in early December 1941? There's an extensive literature on the invasion of Malaya (including many English-language works written and published in Malaysia and Singapore) so this would be covered in reliable sources if it occured. Nick-D (talk) 22:19, 25 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think Carrite is saying that it happened, only that it is not preposterous or out of the question. Certainly, she or he isn't advocating a keep at this time, only that we keep open the possibility that the article creator might come up with a source within the next few days. That's fair enough, but Carrite's under no obligation to do the author's job. Mandsford 16:06, 26 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't think that Carrite thought this happened - my point is that this is hardly an obscure war so there should be able English-language sources available to support Thai involvement if it occurred. Nick-D (talk) 23:05, 26 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - obvious hoax These events are not mentioned in histories of the real life campaign.--Toddy1 (talk) 15:46, 25 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete This appears to be a hoax. Nick-D (talk) 22:16, 25 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. I don't think this is a deliberate hoax - the whole thing is clearly poorly translated (from Thai, I'd guess) and I think it's more a clumsy attempt to describe some sort of Thai occupation of some disputed territories around the Thai/Malay border, during the Japanese occupation of Thailand. But without sources that it actually happened and is notable, it should go. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 11:29, 26 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The "photo supposedly of British prisoners File:BritishPOW.jpg is from a website with the text next to the photo "Guerre franco-thaïlandaise 1940–1941" - see http://terapongoad2116.blogspot.com/2010_08_01_archive.html --Toddy1 (talk) 16:26, 26 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm, yes, that does kinda make it look hoaxy - I can see no mention of Malaysia anywhere near that part of that article. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 00:41, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - clearly a hoax Not supported by reliable sources at all. The mislabelled photos makes it all the more clear that this is indeed a hoax. Manxruler (talk) 00:02, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The image used in this article has also been listed for deletion at Wikipedia:Files_for_deletion/2011_March_27#File:BritishPOW.jpg--Toddy1 (talk) 19:22, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment Never been happy with declaring something one thing because it is not another. Ergo, I will not call the whole article a hoax because it is not cited. Nor have I ever been happy with calling the whole of a thing something because a part of it is that thing; therefore, I am not convinced the whole article is a hoax even if the photograph may be a hoax.
Furthermore, I agree with Boing! that the article seems a description of the Thai occupation of northern Malaysia, which could use some coverage here. Whatever the state or future of the content, the title seems to be erroneous, and is probably not necessary as a redirect either. Anarchangel (talk) 14:37, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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