Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Thai (cannabis)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to List of names for cannabis. The argument(s) to merge and keep have been excellently rebutted. (non-admin closure) ∯WBG^converse 13:05, 28 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thai (cannabis)[edit]

[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Cleaned up for unreliable sources as part of a general cleanup of marijuana varieties. None of the sources passed muster beyond user submitted review-type sites, and nothing really indicated WP:GNG for a variety either, which has been a recurring problem in marijuana variety articles (or varieties in general). Only source that appeared hopeful was this, but it only gives the variety passing mention at best and focusing more on trade in Thailand instead. Kingofaces43 (talk) 03:13, 5 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I'll also add on that there's been an effort to clean up Cannabis_strains#Varieties and only include notable varieties there. Very few pass muster for WP:MEDRS or other significant mention in sources as it is, and this variety looks like it would fail to stand on it's own even at that broader page. It's just another that's primarily only referenced in generally non-reliable marijuana enthusiast forum type sites rather than those that establish GNG. Kingofaces43 (talk) 03:18, 5 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment note this recent version with more content and references (some of which obviously shouldn't be used, though removing all of them seems a bit too dramatic). power~enwiki (π, ν) 04:04, 5 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Removing those sources has actually been part of pretty standard cleanup in these articles for awhile now. Kingofaces43 (talk) 04:20, 5 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Medicine-related deletion discussions. MT Train^Talk 09:14, 5 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Thailand-related deletion discussions. MT Train^Talk 09:14, 5 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Tentative keep. Has an entry on OxfordDictionaries.com.[1] Covered by the Westword~~[2]~~[3] (a general reliable source, I think, though not MEDRS); mentioned by The Diplomat[4] (several paragraphs in an article by the Thai Stick book author on the Thai marijuana trade); the Thai Stick book has a chapter titled "Thai Sticks", which covers the subject in more-than-passing detail. The Mammoth Book of Drug Barons[5], published by Hachette Book Group, also covers its history. Covered by High Times,[6] which I think might be regarded as reliable for this sort of info? I'm not at all familiar with the subject matter, but from skimming through the above sources it appears that the Thai stick was among the most popular forms of marijuana in the 1970s' United States. The historical aspect alone should make it a notable subject. --Paul_012 (talk) 20:18, 6 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Those are actually good examples of some of the broader issues why this is better for AfD rather than PROD, etc. compared to other variety nominations, so I'll dig into these a bit. I'm wary about dictionaries indicating notability, but the overall issue is that there's either tangential or non in-depth mention, or else it's just talking about marijuana from Thailand rather than a specific variety.

For Westword, I'm not seeing any mention.
The Diplomat appears to just to referring to marijuana from Thailand. Nothing about a specific variety. I'm not a fan of WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS arguments, but this source at best seems to be a case for a cuban cigar treatment where it redirects cannabis strains instead. Given the metric for sources we've been using for including varieties at that page though, it doens't seem like this one would pass there either though.
I linked the Thai Sticks book above in case anyone wants the link. From what I've been able to read in that through google, it's just more marijuana from Thailand rather than a variety, and really only the focus in a single book. Anyone can write a book, and the title of the book might accidentally make it seem like it's giving a particular variety notability.
The Mammoth Book of Drug Barons mostly seems to cover more marijuana from Thailand in general.
High Times is regularly deleted from marijuana articles as an unreliable source, or at least not of WP:DUE for varieties.

So basically the problem is that you can skim and see the term Thai sticks pop up on occasion internet searches while trying to exclude simply Thai and cannabis showing up on the same page, but nothing of sufficient depth that would work for GNG for at least a standalone article. We don't even have listing in any publicly available seed/plant catalogues, and that's already an extremely low bar for a variety being notable. If we had notable varieties like other crops, a good metric would be registration as a variety patent, etc., but I'm not seeing anything like that either. Kingofaces43 (talk) 02:04, 7 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Oops. Sorry, wrong link (blame the infinite scrolling web design). It should be this one. You do have a point in that most sources cover the subject more with the scope of marijuana imported from Thailand (and undergoing a specific production process) rather than a variety/strain, so I would also support renaming the article to something more reflective of that scope. But I still think coverage in some form is warranted. --Paul_012 (talk) 14:37, 9 June 2018 (UTC) PS In other words, suggest reverting the June 2017 additions and renaming the article back to Thai stick. --Paul_012 (talk) 11:47, 10 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It seems like the best case scenario would be create something like Cannabis production in Thailand, but that would seem to be independent of this particular AfD. Thai (cannabis) wouldn't have anything that could be merged over to such an article in terms of reliable sources, though Thai stick might be redirect someone could create for that new article. For the article at hand though, that leaves us with a potential redirect to cannabis strains, but there's nothing on the particular strain that would pass muster for mention there either. That's how I ended up at delete at least as opposed to redirecting as we've done for other more well sourced strains/varieties. Kingofaces43 (talk) 13:57, 11 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 00:36, 12 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Merge with article on Cannabis - this article is only a sentence long, and a merge with a more general article should not prove too difficult. Vorbee (talk) 07:58, 12 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not going to bludgeon this AfD, but as discussed above, a merge wouldn't be feasible. The single sentence deals with strain information, but this wouldn't even meet the WP:DUE threshold we've been using over at Cannabis_strains#Varieties. This topic is a poorer quality than some of the other varieties that have been removed there even. Kingofaces43 (talk) 14:04, 12 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to List of names for cannabis, where Thai sticks are mentioned. I don't see enough coverage of "Thai sticks" in reliable sources to write an article (though there's quite a bit in sources like High Times), and Thai strains clearly aren't a stand-alone topic. power~enwiki (π, ν) 21:03, 13 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 09:20, 20 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.