Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (pinball)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. It is open to editors to take the normal editorial actions of merging or redirecting the content either of their own initiatives or by gaining consensus on the article talk page. Stifle (talk) 09:21, 8 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (pinball)[edit]

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My PROD rationale was "Both the reference and the external link are to user-generated sources. I wouldn't consider [1] to be substantial coverage, as it's just basically a release year and an image. There's a similar game coming out in 2020, but the article explaining it has no real coverage about this game, and even that source may come from a user, which would render it unreliable per WP:VGRS. This is also about the upcoming game. The 1991 version, which this article is about, just ain't notable" This was removed by Andrew Davidson with the explanation "per WP:DEPROD." Well, since the deprodder revealed nothing useful, here this goes to AFD. Hog Farm _Bacon 20:51, 28 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. Hog Farm _Bacon 20:51, 28 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Video games-related deletion discussions. Hog Farm _Bacon 20:51, 28 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Can't ever see how this should be notable for its own article. Perhaps there is somewhere it could be merged to? Even then that's pushing it. Ajf773 (talk) 21:20, 28 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to List of games released by Data East, verified entertainment product of a notable company. --Masem (t) 21:32, 28 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- @Masem: - Except none of the content is cited inline, and the citations/external links are to user-generated sources, so "verified" is a bit of a strong word here. I see no problems with a redirect, though. Hog Farm _Bacon 21:42, 28 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - There are books out there that document pinball machines ( I don't have them, so I can't check but I know they exist), links from this page [1] would lead to those sources, and the announcement of the 2020 game affirms there was this version [2]- not enough for an article obviously but enough to pass verification. --Masem (t) 22:29, 28 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to List of games released by Data East' snce there is nothing useful to merge. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:12, 29 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep For an excellent, detailed review of the 1991 machine, see Joe's Classic Video Games. It looks very cool and so I can see why collectors will pay $5,000 or more for a good example. And now, in 2020, there's another TMNT machine generating a lot of buzz: IGN; Pinball News; This Week in Pinball; &c. So, we have plenty of notability and plenty of cool material to work with. The main thing we need are some good pictures but that's just the usual WP:IMPERFECT and not a reason to delete. Our policy WP:ATD states that "If editing can improve the page, this should be done rather than deleting the page." and so deletion is inappropriate. Cowabunga! Andrew🐢(talk) 10:54, 29 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- First source is an unreliable review from a non-notable reviewer. Second is an announcement, third and fourth seem dubious. Even if the last two were notable, they're only announcements and not any substantial coverage (announcements do not indicate notability). Rather baffled by your comment that "The main thing we need are some good pictures", that has absolutely nothing to do with anything and doesn't explain how the article lacks any real sources. Namcokid 47 ^(Contribs) 16:45, 31 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep not all pinball games are notable but this one is. -Masem and Andrew Davidson have presented sources which show the game is notable on its own. Myself I have located sources as well, in trade publications and elsewhere. We have enough to show WP:N Lightburst (talk) 18:12, 29 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Nowhere did Masem say it was notable, he was merely pointing to a source that allowed it to be verified. All of these sources are unreliable or merely announcements, which do not count towards notability. Namcokid 47 ^(Contribs) 16:42, 31 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - With its lack of reliable sources, there's no way this could pass WP:N. Namcokid 47 ^(Contribs) 16:42, 31 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to List of games released by Data East#Pinball games where it is already included. It definitely existed and there is a logical redirect target, but the coverage in reliable sources is not even close to being able to sustain an article. This may need to be re-examined in the future if the upcoming Stern produced machine with the same name garners any notability, but as the coverage on that machine is just limited to the initial announcement right now, it is irrelevant to this current AFD. Rorshacma (talk) 22:41, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Needs more sourcing, but the verified claim that it was the second most popular Japanese pinball table of 1991 should suffice. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 10:33, 5 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to List of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles video games. I've reviewed the aforementioned sources and they are either brief, tangential mentions, or unreliable sources. Together they do not constitute significant coverage. The few facts that need to be known about this can be said in the existing list. (not watching, please {{ping}}) czar 03:14, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.