Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Superman (1997 film)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) DavidLeighEllis (talk) 01:02, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Superman (1997 film)[edit]

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Completely unsourced. Unable to find any evidence that it meets WP:GNG and WP:NF. Betty Logan (talk) 21:41, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - This is part of Malayalam cinema history. Of course, offline sources will be hard to read. Not to mention a potential plot that may be notable at the start. It needs cleanup, and its notability doesn't vanish. Well, I'm not fully aware of this film, but reviews don't seem necessary. They just add weight to balance the quality, but the film has cast well-known to Malayalam audiences, especially in India. George Ho (talk) 23:17, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

And you don't want to nominate Love, Love, Love (1974 film), The Unforgettable Character, Rhythm of the Wave, and My Native Land (film). Do you? They don't have reviews at this point, but they are already notable, mainly due to Teresa Teng's songs and notable cast and potentially notable plot. George Ho (talk) 23:24, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Will you please enlighten us to which part of WP:GNG or WP:NF the article satisfies then, which lays out a strict criteria for notability. We don't have an article for every American or British film even though they are part of "cinema history", if they don't have signicant coverage in reliable sources. I'm sorry George, this is a WP:ILIKEIT vote rather than an argument for the article meeting our criteria. Betty Logan (talk) 23:25, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

WP:Notability is not temporary, and other portions of WP:notability. Of course, there is Wikipedia:Verifiability#Notability. Third-party sources can be found offline. George Ho (talk) 23:35, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Let's have a source then; it's not unreasonable to request a source in a deletion discussion. I haven't been able to find a single, reliable source that confirms the existence of this film, let along the participation of the cast and crew. Betty Logan (talk) 23:42, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Pardon Betty, but numerous reliable sources do "prove" the existence of this film... all a matter of looking. Their not being used to expand and source the article on this 1997 Indian film might seem more matter for regular editing and less one for deletion. WP:EDIT, WP:CSB, WP:WIP, WP:UGLY, WP:DEADLINE, WP:SOFIXIT. Schmidt, ^{Michael Q.} 01:27, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

And of course, since non-English news article for Indian films of the 90's have not become searchable though Google, we look to other search engines Schmidt, ^{Michael Q.} 01:27, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:31, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:31, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The fact that the director and cast of this film are notable convinces me that there are probably several offline sources from the film's country of origin that might not be easily accessible. Taylor Trescott - ^{my talk} + _{my edits} 23:34, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per a reliable source listing the film as among this directing team's "hits and superhits". IE: IBN writing "The director-duo has been together for 17 years and made about 23 films, the majority of them hits and superhits. These include 'Puthukottyile Puthu Manavalan', 'Superman', 'Punjabi House', 'Thenkasipattanam', 'Chathikkatha Chanthu', 'Pandippada', and 'Hallo'." It may take some time and the willing participation of Indian editors with the ability to search for non-English coverage, but I believe this is notable enough for inclusion herein. Schmidt, ^{Michael Q.} 01:33, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Per Malayalam language sources. I am not entirely happy about the nominating editor's deletion of "it was the highest grossing film of the year" immediately prior to nomination. If there's a issue it's more normal to add a (cn) tag. In ictu oculi (talk) 07:17, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I would technically be within my right to remove everything that is unsourced in this article (there is no requirement to tag unsourced content—nor is it normal practice either—it is simply a courtesy), but as it is I only actually deleted two lines that I checked and are demonstrably false. It's not particularly relevant to the AfD either, so if you wish to discuss it further then feel free to drop a message at my talk page. Betty Logan (talk) 09:43, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I presume the deleted article statement was only claiming the biggest grossing Malayali film of 1997? What's the evidence that the claim is false? In ictu oculi (talk) 15:24, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

If it's an uncited claim, I would say that for a pretty significant claim such as "highest grossing" anything, the burden of proof would be on the person making that claim, and if another editor looks for, and finds no evidence supporting such a claim, deletion of that statement is the right thing to do. I think this article should be a Keep, for now, but the highest-grossing claim doesn't factor into my decision, as there's no evidence supporting it. I have no problems with anyone deleting that. Rockypedia (talk) 19:58, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I checked BoxOfficeIndia.com and a Wiki list of Malayalam hits (which included films from 1997) and the film didn't appear anywhere. While it may not be conclusive it wasn't a hit, it convinces me it is very unlikely it was the number 1 film of 1997 (either in Indian or Malayalam film) so I removed the claim on those grounds. Betty Logan (talk) 03:24, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. This movie by the famous director duo Rafi Mecartin and casts some of the biggest actors of Malayalam cinema was a hit movie. You cannot expect to see online reviews of the 1997 Malayalam movie. Salih (talk) 17:53, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.