Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sumter Mall

This discussion was subject to a deletion review on 2014 May 19.
For an explanation of the process, see Wikipedia:Deletion review.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. The policy arguments clearly show that this is not independantly notable. It may be possible to merge some info into the city article, but overall the consensus is delete the panda ₯’ 22:39, 17 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Sumter Mall[edit]

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non-notable shopping mall. No indication of notability. It is not clear however whether malls qualify for speedy DGG ( talk ) 00:54, 24 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: The only news sources I could find were from The Item, a local newspaper covering a few counties. No regional or national coverage. Moswento ^talky 08:37, 24 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of South Carolina-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 12:13, 24 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Shopping malls-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 12:13, 24 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Per WP:OUTCOMES, this is a Regional Shopping Center per the definition here. Malls are inherently notable. Me5000 (talk) 23:38, 25 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Malls are not inherently notable. WP:OUTCOMES says: "Larger malls are generally considered notable. Very small malls, strip malls, and individual shops are generally deleted unless significant sourcing can be found." From their website, they seem to have 45 shops, which may not be "very small", but it's equally not large enough to establish notability on its own. Where is the "significant sourcing"? Moswento ^talky 12:37, 26 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Nomination provides no evidence that the topic is not notable. Show your work. Unscintillating (talk) 03:59, 27 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The research done by the delete !votes doesn't report that this mall was previously known as the Jessamine Mall. Unscintillating (talk) 03:59, 27 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Keep This is a regional shopping center as per [1], and a regional mall as per [2]. As per WP:OUTCOMES, larger malls such as this one are generally considered notable. The city shows this to be the most important shopping feature in the city, as per [3]. Other links: [4] , [5] , [6], [7] (not entirely a WP:RS), [8] , [9] , [10] , [11]. Unscintillating (talk) 03:59, 27 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Being the most important shopping feature in a city is not a mark of independent notability. The only independent in-depth coverage you point to is in the Sumter Daily Item, which is a local paper covering a few counties. There is no evidence of significant coverage in regional or national publications. Also, this is a pretty average size mall, so I don't think we can assume notability on basis of its size. Moswento ^talky 16:18, 27 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica¹⁰⁰⁰ 03:20, 3 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Not notable. Mall of America, South Coast Plaza, Fashion Island are notable. But a regional mall, with it's only coverage from a local paper, and not tied to any major development company, sadly, is not. Malke 2010 (talk) 02:39, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The first two !votes to delete didn't notice that this mall has a long history with another name. Show your work. Unscintillating (talk) 03:22, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Where is the significant independent reliable source coverage under another name? Moswento ^talky 07:55, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Where do you think you are having trouble? Unscintillating (talk) 23:13, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Several sources: [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] Me5000 (talk) 15:23, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Sumter, South Carolina. NorthAmerica¹⁰⁰⁰ 00:49, 11 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete or redirect per NorthAmerica. Mall-cruft. I checked out the sources cited by various people above. Sorry, but a dozen perfunctory articles in a local newspaper doesn't add up to being notable. Show me some sources in national mainstream media. -- RoySmith (talk) 12:51, 17 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Consensus is that malls do not need national coverage to be notable per these discussions: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Southgate Mall (Missoula) Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Middlesboro Mall (Middlesboro, Kentucky) Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Mall at Westlake Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Columbia Mall (Missouri) Almost no malls have national coverage. The sources I provided are not "perfunctory"(did you look at all of the source I provided or just a few?) and easily satisfy WP:GNG. Additionaly, consensus is that enclosed shopping malls and Regional Shopping Centers (this mall is both) are inherently notable. Me5000 (talk) 14:32, 17 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Consensus can change. If you tell me that most malls do not have national coverage, then my response is that most malls are not notable. It's a building. With a parking lot. It's got a couple of department store anchors, and a food court, and a shoe store, and a couple of clothing stores, and a bank, and book store, and it's just like any other of a zillion malls around the world. -- RoySmith (talk) 18:31, 17 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"A zillion" sounds like a number made up out of thin air, but one of the key words in WP:N is "evidence". What evidence do you have to support your position? Do you object to the icsc.org or allbusiness.com definitions? Do you have another metric to define "larger"? Unscintillating (talk) 19:23, 17 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I will stipulate to your assertion that I did not do an accurate count. It might have been a jillion. Mostly what I object to is that there is no non-local coverage. I see a lot of articles in a local newspaper (The Sumpter, SC Daily Item). They do not impress me as meeting WP:N. I would be much more impressed if you could provide me with a couple of articles in national newspapers or similar sources. -- RoySmith (talk) 19:58, 17 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The keep !votes, to my knowledge, didn't task themselves with looking for non-local sources. If you want to and can provide evidence that there are no non-local sources, you also need to show how that is a policy/guideline/essay based argument. A point that you've not explored other than by saying that consensus can change, is why does WP:OUTCOMES indicate that "larger" malls are generally kept? Unscintillating (talk) 22:11, 17 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.