Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Stan Schmidt

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. consensus is sufficient sourcing exists. Check with the Wikipedia Library folks to see about accessing the Melbourne Herald Sun Star Mississippi 03:38, 10 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Stan Schmidt[edit]

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Stan Schmidt (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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Non notable martial artist, at least by Wikipedia standards. Fails to meet WP:MANOTE. He lacks the significant independent coverage required by the GNG and there's no evidence of him meeting WP:NACTOR. My search found no evidence of competitive success to show him notable as an athlete or martial artist. Sandals2 (talk) 18:14, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers, Sportspeople, and Martial arts. Sandals2 (talk) 18:14, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Television, South Africa, and Australia. CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 19:35, 2 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep he was a high-profile martial artist and celebrity in South Africa in the 1980s, I remember him from when I was a kid. He was a staple on TV (which was a big deal at the time) and even did ads for things like lawnmowers[1] (YouTube has the Afrikaans version, there was an English version as well) because of his celebrity. I’ll look at the sources in more depth, but would certainly meet WP:GNG via WP:NTEMP (South Africa was isolated because of cultural boycotts in the 80s so people like him got lots of coverage See this (non-karate) book which states "...he was a god...every boy knew who he was.."[1]). The article mentions an in-depth People of the South interview: would be good to find that as People of the South was a high profile show in the 90s, but I think he was interviewed in many other contexts. (I have found a 2016 blog post with an inline link to the interview, but, alas it has been removed from YouTube, nonetheless, it is strong evidence that interview exists)[2]
UPDATE: I found a link to this (2015?) profile (paywalled/dead) from Melbourne’s Herald Sun covering him (he retired to Australia):
https://www.pressreader.com/australia/herald-sun/20150323/281827167256216 “Age Defying Sensei Reigns outside Japan”. The Google extract has the sentence "A MELBOURNE pensioner is one of the world's most decorated karate experts. Stan Schmidt, or Sensei Stan as he is known to the thousands he has .." Teaching thousands, being known in multiple countries, and being subject to independent articles along with being associated with multiple schools (found by Googling) seems to satisfy WP:MANOTE. There also seems to be a coverage in trade magazines, but it's hard to confirm their reliability. Park3r (talk) 00:30, 4 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Appearing in commercials is not enough to show notability. Your quote from the book omits the information that the author was a student of Schmidt's, the part where he says "to me and my friends he was a god" and that Schmidt was "my first father figure". All of that is in a thank you paragraph. After that, he's not mentioned again and this can hardly be considered neutral and independent. The "People of the South" interview is an interview, which means it doesn't qualify as significant independent coverage and the review of that interview is by a student of Schmidt's. I still see nothing that meets the GNG standard.Sandals2 (talk) 12:46, 5 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
People of the South had a profile of him, according to the article. If that profile existed, it would have been significant independent coverage, since it was a widely watched TV show with significant reach at the time of its making. Making an editorial decision to cover Schmidt in a full episode would be a strong indicator of notability, for that show, at that time, since it was a widely watched and high profile TV show. As I said, the dead embedded video in the blog was a strong indicator that the episode exists, not that the blog itself qualifies as a WP:RS. Making TV ads may not be a sign of notability in itself, but the fact that his personal endorsement, was significant enough to sell products in South Africa’s at the time highly concentrated media market is another indicator of notability: he wasn’t appearing as an commercial actor, he was appearing as himself. It’s getting more and more difficult to find internet-accessible sources on South African popular culture: I know that some of the sources (the blog post, and potentially the book) I added above do not necessarily qualify as WP:RS, however they are indicator that such sources exist and an effort should be made to seek them out before deleting this article. Park3r (talk) 21:24, 5 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments Rank has never been considered to show WP notability in martial arts biographies. If possible, it would be nice to have evidence of his karate championships (dates and which titles). Teaching lots of students is an indication of success, not WP notability. If he really was the "subject of independent articles" and has "coverage in trade magazines", it should be easy to provide a few examples of coverage that shows WP:GNG is met. FWIW, I think it's likely he's notable, but I'd like to see a stronger case made. To get the ball rolling, I'd include the fact that he was twice featured on the cover, and in articles, of "Shotokan Karate Magazine". Papaursa (talk) 23:12, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
We've got the Melbourne Herald Sun profile article which should get him over GNG, but again, it's a dead link/paywalled.[3] Park3r (talk) 00:01, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep I added some magazine sources about him and articles he wrote. Note that Shotokan Karate magazine called him "the pioneer of South African shotokan karate-do". I still think the article would benefit from more sources in general publications, but I think a reasonable case has been made for his WP notability. Papaursa (talk) 02:14, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per the sources added by Papaursa. Making a magazine cover multiple times is pretty significant. He also made a Shotokan Karate cover one more time and received a tribute article after his death,[2] and very early in the run of the same magazine, he had an article written on him as well.[3] -— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2pou (talk • contribs) 23:04, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Being featured so prominently in an issue should be mentioned in the article. I'd still like to see additional coverage from more general publications. Papaursa (talk) 00:14, 10 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Richardson, K.; Park, T. (2009). Part of the Pride. Pan Macmillan Australia. p. 39. ISBN 978-1-74198-749-2. Retrieved 2022-06-04.
  2. ^ Geyer, K.; Cheetham, J.; Clarke, M. "SENSEI STAN SCHMIDT 8th DAN JKA". Shotokan Karate Magazine. No. 143.
  3. ^ Ablott, Sean (March 2020). "STAN SCHMIDT'S DOJO (SOUTH AFRICA)". Shotokan Karate Magazine. No. 7.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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