Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sruli Recht (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. L Faraone 22:09, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sruli Recht[edit]

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I speedied this as promotional-, but am sending it here on a user request. The present version is less promotional than earlier, but has less indication of possible notability. The references strike me as either press releases or mere mentions. see below for my !vote on the revised article ( DGG ( talk ) 00:40, 2 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fashion-related deletion discussions. czar · · 00:53, 2 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Israel-related deletion discussions. czar · · 00:53, 2 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. czar · · 00:53, 2 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Non-notable. Avi (talk) 01:10, 2 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Doesn't pass WP:GNG. The only book sources I found are essentially copies of this article and other promotional type articles. The one Huffington Post article is reasonable, but by itself is insufficient to demonstrate the individual meets the criteria for inclusion. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 14:21, 2 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The subject of this article meets neither GNG nor Wikipedia:Notability_(people)#Creative_professionals. Blue Rasberry (talk) 15:10, 2 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Does not meet WP:GNG. — Joaquin008 ^(talk) 21:29, 3 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Updated Page has been updated with all information cited by third party sources. Please suggest further corrections if needed. Sawwater (talk) 22:08, 7 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Honestly, most of that is unreliable, the rest is minor mentions. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 22:42, 7 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  - Every single point comes directly from a reputable source. There are 93,300 google hits on the subject, as well as published books, including the Gestalten publishing book on Icelandic fashion design, which has a Sruli Recht photograph as the cover. This designer has been noted in some of these articles as the best known designer from Iceland.
    For comparison, I suggest to look at the page of Gudmundur Jorundsson which references the subjects own webpage bio, and is written by and signed by the subject, and also uses quotes referring to other people.
    Other very well known fashion designers pages are similarly "unreliable" by your standards, even though Sruli Recht is very well known in the fashion business world. It is possible that the general wiki editor's field of interest are various and rarely fashion oriented, which makes the subjects less covered/ edited by those knowledgeable, and more scrutinized by editors such as yourself.
    Please see the following pages for reference - all very well known international fashion designers: Rick Owens, Antipodium, Yigal_Azrouël Akira_Isogawa It would be good to have an editor who's field of interest is fashion and design weigh in come to think of it.
    Recht is mentioned in Time magazine, Fashion Business times, Huffington post, has a dedicated segment on TYT, the worlds biggest online news... the list goes on. We could find and add a heavy amount of references from printed fashion journals if necessary, but there would be more references than text in the article.
    I would appreciate help in knowing how to improve this article based on your criteria, as the article is clearly relevant to any reader researching fashion design. Wikipedia is here to educate those not knowledgable on a subject, by those who are.
    The only doubt about the notability of the subject is the suggestion of deletion at the top of the page. Otherwise, if the lack of notability of Sruli Recht can't be proved then I propose immediate removal of the deletion suggestion. Sawwater (talk) 13:17, 8 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, J04n(talk page) 16:10, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I listed Antipodium and Saberi for speedy deletion as entirely promotional, tho at least for Antipodium an article could probably be written. If the speedys are declined, I'll do some drastic stubbification or nominate them here. As for the others mentioned, Owens has a major award, though better referencing is needed; Azrouël has major refs tho there are problems with the article, and I'm considering how to handle them; Iogawa was honoured with a postage stamp tho the article is promotional & need either editing or deletion . DGG ( talk ) 16:45, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
weak keep The possibly significant refs are Fiancial Times and the Age. The Age might be PR influenced, but is substantial coverage. The FT is not a full article on him , but does give his importance in context. The refs for the brassknuckles-umbrella do not show significance; I don't see one for Time. DGG ( talk ) 16:55, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Time Magazine link is number 12. The brassknuckle umbrella was significant news, covered in every news paper in Iceland and on all news networks. The age article I see is dated from 2005, which shows many years active. I understand your points on the other designers (Did you take a look at the Jorundsson page?). What I was attempting to illustrate is that instead of deleting the fashion designer sections, they should be higlighted for more contributions, as this seems to be an area largely overlooked by wiki editors. How can we get more focus onto these pages? All of these designers are influential members of the global design community, and are very well known, even if standard news publications don't feature them. They are all featured frequently in printed and digital fashion journals, and even have their own books published. I mentioned before that Recht was on the cover of the the Gestalten Icelandic design book, and is considered the best internationally known Icelandic designer. Sawwater (talk) 19:09, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I'd like to be in contact with other editors who are versed in design and fashion design. I think it is important to bring them into the debate. Please can you tell me who we could have help on this?Sawwater (talk) 19:12, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Per the links near the top of this discussion added by CZAR, the fashion wikiproject has been notified already. Gaijin42 (talk) 19:22, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes I saw that last week, but nothing has been heard from the fashion wikiproject in 8 days. Are there regular contributors there, or a prominent editor? Saberi has been deleted, which is unfortunate due to his relevance and influence in the fashion world compared to pages like this which are promotional, and written by the subject themselves. Sawwater (talk) 19:45, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is huge. There are millions of users on millions of topics. There is not a good way to keep track of who the prominent or active ones are on any particular subject, except by looking at who is editing random articles on that subject. Check the wikiproject etc. However, if you are going to ask them to comment, be careful that you do not violate WP:CANVASSING Gaijin42 (talk) 19:50, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Just a clarification: The discussion was included in its corresponding WP:DELSORT list, but that's separate from Wikipedia:WikiProject Fashion. The project gets automated alerts for articles that are tagged with their banner, but this one isn't so they weren't alerted. I've left a note on their talk page — Frankie (talk) 20:24, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: Wikipedia:WikiProject Fashion has been notified of this discussion — Frankie (talk) 20:24, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Oh my! I am late to the party, I see. Looking at Sruli Recht, the article needs major work as it has a lot of formatting/sourcing issues (including bare URLS, heavy use of external links, etc.). However, looking at the actual content, I think I can see enough to lean towards a keep vote if it is majorly rewritten and reformatted. There is quite a bit of coverage on Google News, including articles specifically about Recht, in various languages. I don't immediately see anything on Google Books (some Wikipedia rehashes) to suggest notability there, but the list of books in the article, if he does have coverage in these books, it does imply a level of recognition that would more than support notability. I would recommend that this article be incubated so it can be wikified, and then run past the Requested Articles workshop to make sure that it passes muster before being reinstated. Mabalu (talk) 17:35, 11 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for joining Malibu. Is it possible for someone to temporarily reinstate Saberi's page for Malibu to look at? I'm pretty sure that article needs the same attention, and he has similar notability, if not more.Sawwater (talk) 19:15, 11 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Make a post at deletion review, and someone will restore it and there will be a consensus on if the deletion was appropriate or not. Gaijin42 (talk) 19:28, 11 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Can you point me to the right deletion review page please.Sawwater (talk) 13:08, 12 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Deletion review Gaijin42 (talk) 13:33, 12 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I already checked out the Saberi page via Google Cache, and I can see why it was deleted. It was incredibly promotional and didn't really show any evidence for notability on a quick look through. The best thing would be to start over again, doing the page properly this time. Mabalu (talk) 14:40, 14 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mkdw ^talk 19:20, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. I'd say there seems to be a reasonable amount of third-party coverage of this Ice Bear thing of his, as well as the Armory story. 122.176.146.47 (talk) 20:42, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.