Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Spoorthi

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to Airtel Super Singer Junior#Season 4. Nakon 01:03, 16 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Spoorthi[edit]

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Subject is a 10 year old kid who won a singing competition for 6-14 year-olds on a reality TV show last month. The show received some relatively minor media coverage including brief mention of her win. The subject does not meet the WP:MUSICBIO or WP:GNG notability standards, and essentially falls under WP:BLP1E. The page should therefore be redirected to Airtel Super Singer Junior#Season 4 as recommended by policy.

Note that the current version of the article includes lot of extraneous and unsourced details and has been WP:REFBOMBed by the article-creator (an SPA with likely COI), so do check the breadth of coverage in independent reliable sources such as [1], [2] and [3]. Abecedare (talk) 09:55, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. Abecedare (talk) 10:04, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. Abecedare (talk) 10:04, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Abecedare (talk) 10:04, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The subject in this article won the reality show last month after being in the competition for almost a year. The show started one year ago and broadcast on a daily basis at prime time for a full one hour on a popular Tamil TV channel STAR Vijay. Star Vijay channel is part of 21st Century Fox's STAR India network. This TV channel is available all over the world. This show is very popular among Indians and Srilankans living around the world, in India, Srilanka, USA, Canada, Europe, Malaysia, Singapore, Australia and many other parts of the world. The subject of this article came through the show unscathed of all eliminations week after week and topped hundreds of participants from around the world starting from the auditions one year ago. It also must be noted that the final winner of the competition is chosen based on scores given by eminent personalities (close to 30 in numbers) who personally sat through the 'grand finale' at the judges panel. Also 50% weightage of the scores was taken from public voting. Public from around the world enthusiastically participated in public voting which was done through a dedicated online website as well as local SMS votes from within India. This show during the course of its run over a year also featured personalities from Indian music and film industry, such as A.R.Rahman, S.P.Balasubramanyam, Dhanush among others as special guests and special judges. Winning the title of this show or even reaching to top 10 in the show is a dream for many aspiring singers as many previous winners such as Diwakar, Alka Ajith as well as many other participants have went on to make a foothold in the field of Indian playback singing for Indian film industry. Therefore, winning the title of this contest by the subject of the article is a major achievement. The grand finale and the title winner was substantially covered in mainline newspapers in India, with pictures of the subject of this article prominently shown, references of which are given in the article. Previous winners of this show such as Diwakar, Alka Ajith also have articles on them created and published in Wikipedia. Merinsan (talk) 11:05, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It is also to be noted that as public was involved in choosing the winner, the later stages of the competition generated a highly divided public opinion among viewers and the credentials of the participants were hotly debated on social forums such as Facebook. Even after the grand finale and award of the title to Spoorthi, it is still being debated among fans of other contestants accusing the channel and judges for not choosing one of their favourites. As is the case, major contestants including the winner have also gained fair amount of detractors among the general public. Merinsan (talk) 11:52, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

A select few existing editors repeatedly addressing me as an SPA may note that I am a new comer to Wikipedia, just a week old in here. This the first article I have submitted for creation. I have taken lot of help from many experienced users during the draft stage of this article. I found many of the existing editors very courteous and helpful in welcoming new comers like myself. I have always accepted and incorporated most comments suggested by experienced users during and after creation of the article. As the SPA article clearly states, "existing editors must assume good faith concerning the user account, act fairly, civilly, not bite newcomers, and remember everyone was new at some time. Care is needed if addressing single-purpose accounts on their edits". Having developed an interest in Wikipedia now, I also intend to learn more and contribute as much as possible to Wikipedia in the coming days. Thank you. Merinsan (talk) 17:59, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep In my opinion, the person seems to have won a reasonably-notable TV programme, and some of the article is well-sourced. I think it should be kept, but shortened, as the detail in the article seems too much. There isn't a huge amount of media coverage, but I think it's just about enough. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:57, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

She may become notable, but I think it is too early at this stage. I therefore recommend a merge and redirect. I know little about talent shows in general and that goes double for an Indian one. I wanted to make sure we treat this the same as we would an American or British equivalent. The winners (and many other contestants) of X factor, Got Talent and Idol all get their own articles. They are more inclusive competitions (not limited by age) so not sure if they are good comparisons. Also the singers/entertainers seem to either have some sort of career before joining or develop one soon after or even during.

The prize money for this competition seems significant (a house to the winner, a kilo of gold to the second place and a car for the third). The coverage is borderline though, I found this[4] the most compelling of those listed as it goes into more detail then most (others just seem to name her as the winner) and it is not a strictly Indian press. My opinion is that there are some kernals of notability there and if other talent reality shows are anything to go by she will most likely become more famous. But I would wait for that to happen. If she releases a song and it does well or there is some more reliable coverage outside the talent show then I would be much more comfortable supporting this article in its own right. As of now though I think it can be redirected to the main article without losing any important information. AIRcorn (talk)

@Aircorn: Just as a side-note: Asian Tribune (not to be confused with this Asian Tribune) is quick a fringe-y publication, and unlike Times of India, Hindu etc not indexed by by any archival services that I know of. I very much doubt that it qualifies as a reliable source with a reputation for fact-checking etc. Abecedare (talk) 21:59, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The main article Airtel Super Singer Junior is focusing on all four seasons of the TV show, starting from the year 2007, each season running for a whole year and a Senior Season coming alternately. The main article mainly discusses about the format of the show in detail. It does not include any sections dedicated to the previous winners of the contest. Previous winners of the competition Alka Ajith and Diwakar have standalone articles on them for a long time. Therefore, in my opinion it is no harm to to keep this article about the current winner also as a standalone article. Merinsan (talk) 22:06, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The details of the prize money is also given in this source 10 albeit with a minor printing error. The winner's prize is indicated as 75-Lakhs villa in this news article whereas the actual value is 70-Lakhs Indian Rupees as advertised during the program. This may be considered as a minor printing error and can be correlated with the other sources. As Aircorn says, this prize money is significant. It is the highest amount for a reality show of this kind in this region, it is even more than what was given for the winners of the Senior Season last time. That may explain the popularity and reach of this show around the world which attracts major sponsors willing to pay such huge prize money. The show is also covered in foreign press because there have been several participants from abroad as well as there is a huge interest among people of Indian and Srilankan origin living around the world. Merinsan (talk) 04:35, 5 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Still making myself familiar with the Wikipedia terms & definitions, I notice that I am also being referred as COI, meaning I may be having a Conflict of Interest in having submitted this article for creation. I would like to absolutely deny that I am having any COI in this regard. Honestly speaking I am a fan of the subject of this article, otherwise I wouldn't have taken trouble to write an article about her. But then, I am also a fan of music, especially Indian classical music. I am also a fan of few other contestants in the show, all of the top 6 finalists and another few from the top 10. These children are exceptionally talented and if at all any difference in quality between them it is only borderline. The subject of this article I have met only a couple of times after she had won the grand finale to congratulate her as a fan. During the period preceding the finale, I had on few occasions talked with her parents over phone as a fan giving tips on improvement in certain areas. Other than this small interaction, I don't have any association with the subject or anyone else from her family. We hail from different parts of India, never knew them before this competition. I would also have taken this task of writing an article, had one of my other favourites won the competition. Please be assured that this article is not intended for personal promotion, rather just an attempt by me to write my first article on a person I genuinely think is exceptionally talented. Merinsan (talk) 04:09, 5 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

If, as you say, you have met the article subject several times and talked with her parents about her career, you fall within the definition of WP:COISELF and should not be editing this article. -- Euryalus (talk) 10:55, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

That isn't really true. Merely knowing the subject doesn't create a serious COI. It might lead to non-neutral editing, certainly, but doesn't create the kind of problems writing about yourself or being paid to write about someone does. --ThaddeusB (talk) 15:49, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect per Aircorn and WP:TOOSOON. CookieMonster755 (talk) 04:29, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom, or Redirect per CookieMonster755. Additionally, Merinsan needs to be banned from editing in BLP article space. Ncmvocalist (talk) 08:11, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thankfully we do not ban people based on their AfD comments. Please keep your personal attacks to yourself or raise your concerns in the proper venues for user conduct issues. Incidentally, "X per Y" !votes are pretty much worthless as AfD is not decided on a vote count, and such !votes are discouraged by AfD guidelines. I find it pretty ironic that someone who wants to "ban" another from editing an entire class of articles can't be bothered to follow best practice in their own editing. --ThaddeusB (talk) 15:42, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

If you think the edits are in compliance with core editing policy, by all means defend it, but if you plan on lecturing me about your failure to enforce policy, it's not going to fly. I've detailed the concerns in enough detail at the article talk page, and various noticeboards. If you want to keep an editor who is clearly lacks competence, then take responsibility for him. Ncmvocalist (talk) 15:58, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thankfully, we also don't ban new users for not instantly knowing every policy... An editor of your experience should 1) have more tolerance for newbies; 2) not edit war even if you are "right"; and 3) limit discussion of user conduct to the proper venues instead of trying to use it to influence an AfD outcome. --ThaddeusB (talk) 16:05, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

And unfortunately, we keep losing competent editors because of this type of attitude. You should either be bold and take responsibility for him (like a mentor), or stop preaching. That too, especially when you are unable to practice what it is you are preach. For the avoidance of doubt, if I thought the article needed to be deleted, I wouldn't bother editing it to this extent. The outcome of the AfD isn't what I was interested in when mentioning the conduct issue here; it was with a view that someone would make an effort to address the problematic aspects of the user's editing (which, in all reality, is what actually appears to have prompted this AfD in the first place). Ncmvocalist (talk) 17:00, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Quick note (mainly to aid the closing admin): I, as nominator, also support a Redirect and not an outright deletion. Abecedare (talk) 15:34, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Merge (not just redirect!) to Airtel Super Singer Junior#Season 4. The show does not appear to be popular enough to make a winner notable and thus we are firmly in the BLP1E area. However, coverage at the show page is appropriate and there is information worth merging. Pinging @Onel5969: we accepted this at AfC for input. --ThaddeusB (talk) 15:42, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I have restored full-protection to this article. It has been the subject of severe edit warring between an editor who wants to remove large sections of it, and the author of the article who wants to retain those sections. After protecting it, I reverted to an expanded version of the article to facilitate evaluation and discussion. I have no opinion on the outcome of this AfD. --MelanieN (talk) 15:50, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep - article is supported by enough reliable sources (as well as some less than reliable ones), to show notability. This was a borderline accept to me in the first place, but I would still sit on the keep side of the fence. Would not be adverse to a Merge with the Airtel Super Singer Junior#Season 4 article, either. Definitely not a delete or a simple redirect.Onel5969 (talk) 16:42, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

To stress the popularity of the show, I would like to mention few things. Even as the show's prize money is huge compared to other similar shows in this region, it can be seen that participants' main objective in the show is not to win the prize, but to get the fame and popularity comes with it as well as future opportunities to get a professional singing career in Indian film and music industry. This can be understood from the fact that Ms. Jessica, the Canadian national who came all the way from Canada and stayed in India for the whole year to participate in the show, finished runner up, one rank below the subject of the article Spoorthi. Jessica declared on the 'grand finale' stage itself that she is donating the entire '1 kg of Gold' that came as a prize, to charity, to Srilankan and Indian orphanages. Jessica also got great reception on her return to Canada at Toronto Airport, for having come to this level on the show, as can be seen in this source. This show is very popular among people of Indian and Srilankan origin living around the world. Getting a photo article about oneself on the highly respected Indian newspapers such as The Hindu and The Times of India is not a minor feat and this cannot be brushed aside as a minor media coverage. Locally, there were also interviews with the toppers of the show broadcast on radio and published on weekly local magazines. My aim in stating these here is just to stress the notability and not intended as 'promotional' Merinsan (talk) 17:46, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Airtel Super Singer Junior#Season 4. This child is not (yet) individually notable enough for her own article, but notable enough for a mention as a winner of the show. One day, perhaps, but not yet. ScrapIronIV (talk) 18:17, 6 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.