Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Somayeh Mohammadi (2nd nomination)

Add links
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Sandstein 05:53, 27 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Somayeh Mohammadi[edit]

AfDs for this article:

[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!

Somayeh Mohammadi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Does not meet notability for WP:BIO or WP:EVENT or WP:GNG. Article about a Somayeh Mohammadi who joined a political group, her parents saying that she's been held hostage, and Somayeh denying this and filing a lawsuit against her parents. Article has also a lot of unimportant and repeated information. Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 14:15, 11 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. ___CAPTAIN MEDUSAtalk 15:41, 11 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Iran-related deletion discussions. ___CAPTAIN MEDUSAtalk 15:41, 11 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the Article Rescue Squadron's list of content for rescue consideration. Lightburst (talk) 22:00, 19 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. The article was nominated for deletion once and as a result was polished by several editors. I think it has enough sources to meet notability.--Kazemita1 (talk) 18:39, 12 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep According to which policy unimportant and repeated information is the reason for deletion, I don't see such reason into related policy or Can't we remove duplicated material rather than deletion? Anyway, There are lots of RSes supported the notability of Somayeh Mohammadi:

  • The opinion of Somayeh about her parent's effort to meet her was reported by thenational
  • How did she join MEK and her parent's effort to meet her and her letter accusing her father of being an Iranian intelligence agent was reported by guardian
  • Somayeh has published her whole story in a book available in Persian and English which reported by tirana times
  • Stories have emerged of how MEK paid many media outlets in the country in order to buy their silence regarding the abduction of Somayeh Mohammadi which reported by Fars news
  • Brief and complete description about Somayeh specifically her parent's effort to meet her is presented by Spiegel
  • her parent's efforts to find her in Albania was reported by independent
  • She stated her opinion about the documentary film “An Unfinished Film For My Daughter.”(about her life narrated by her father). Also At the time, Mohammadi provided her response by writing a book, “The End Of A Conspiracy.” Which was reported by thebaghdadpost
  • Websites backed by MEK published articles about her, mek-iran and mojahedin... In the article, The National’s Gregg Russell interviewed MEK member Somayeh Mohammadi, The latest effort of Mostafa and Mahboubeh, Somayeh’s parents, is to come to Albania and file complaints against the MEK, Somayeh Mohammadi MEK member now living in Albania
  • Also, there are sources in Albanian such as TPZ, lexo and balkanweb about her and her parent's effort to meet Somayeh
Comment Saff V. is the author of this article. Stefka Bulgaria (talk) 21:12, 14 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Delete - This has become a long lasting repetitious story. 38-year-old Somayeh Mohammadi is not a “kid” and does not need her parents’ permission to travel or to have her own political beliefs.
    When moving from Iraq to Albania, all members of MEK had to go through multiple checks and interviews by different institutes such as United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) and United Nations Assistance Mission for Iraq (UNAMI), as well as by government security agencies in Iraq and Albania. Their belongings were checked item by item just before they left Iraq. It does not seem that any “under torture hostage” could pass over all these checks.

    Further, Somayeh Mohammadi, herself, has repeatedly announced to impartial parties that she is with MEK on her own free will and that her father is persecuting her on a mission from Iranian Regime’s Ministry of Intelligence and Security (MOIS). [1][2][3]
  1. ^ Iranian-Canadian father, mujahedeen daughter clash over Albania-based MEK
  2. ^ Somayeh Mohammadi, Iranian accusing his father as an agent: We are facing psychological torture
  3. ^ Intervista/ Somayeh Mohammadi: Jam me muxhahedinët me dëshirë, s’jam peng. Ja e vërteta për babain tim
This is a baseless article. The encyclopedic values of Wikipedia should not be allowed to be misused by Iran’s misinformation campaign. Alex-h (talk) 09:10, 15 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
In these two sources (tiranatime and balkanweb) which are introduced by you, her father was accused to be in relation with Iran's Intelligence service. In other words, according to sources, it is just allegation, but you presented it as a fact, which source does support her father's mission? In other hands, while there are reports about Somayeh in guardian and independent and Spiegel, Is it can be baseless or Iran’s misinformation campaign?Saff V. (talk) 13:34, 15 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You (Alex-h) make an argument for possibly making changes to the article, which belongs on its talk page, but no argument for deleting it. In fact the sources that you listed attest to the notability of the subject. Phil Bridger (talk) 13:44, 15 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
My argument for deleting this article is that it's not based on anything that is notable, but instead looks like part of a disinformation campaign agains the MEK (see this for example). The article is about parents that allege that Somayeh Mohammadi is being held against her will, and Somayeh Mohammadi saying this is a false claim. Which of Wikipedia's notability guidelines does a subject like this meet? None. Alex-h (talk) 14:14, 16 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
WP:GNG. Phil Bridger (talk) 18:04, 16 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Allegations of something that according to Somayeh Mohammadi has not even happened does not make for a notable incident. Alex-h (talk) 15:27, 17 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
WP:GNG depends on significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject. The many sources for this subject, including those that you provided, show that this subject has received such coverage. You are still arguing about the truth or falsity of certain claims, which are article content, rather than article existence, matters. Phil Bridger (talk) 21:12, 17 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I think Alex-h is digging himself deeper, the more he discusses the clearer the notability of the subject becomes. @Alex-h: What do you mean by saying the article "looks like part of a disinformation campaign against the MEK"?Saff V. (talk) 11:15, 18 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Somayeh Mohammadi says this herself: My father was a supporter of the MEK, I told him I want to live with the MEK in Ashraf. In 2004 I heard he's working with the Mullah's regime in Iran. He said too much lies, he said Somayeh has been kidnapped by the MEK. I have his passport too, to show he came from Iran to Irak . He then came to Albania to say the MEK has kidnapped me, but this is not right because I'm in a free country here; I go outside, to doctor, shopping, anywhere, I can go. And if I want to chose to leave the MEK, I can, but this is not my choice because I want to live with the MEK. All things that Mustafa said in Albania is wrong and not true[1] Alex-h (talk) 15:47, 19 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
And what on Earth does that have to do with article deletion? Yet again you are arguing about the content of the article, not giving any policy-compliant reasons for us not to have an article. Phil Bridger (talk) 15:56, 19 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The subject's testimony says that the incident that this page is about is a WP:HOAX, and that Somayeh Mohammadi is notable only for this one event only (WP:BLP1E). Alex-h (talk) 21:01, 19 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It is missed. @Alex-h: What do you mean by saying the article "looks like part of a disinformation campaign against the MEK"?Saff V. (talk) 05:46, 22 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: while just 2 weeks are past from the first nominating of the article for AFD, it was closed by this result: "this leans more to a keep than a delete, but I'll play it safe and deem this a "no consensus".Saff V. (talk) 13:00, 15 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong delete: It fails WP:BLP1E and GNG. Article about a non-notable person involved in a single non-notable event (an event that the subject of the article itself says is untrue). Barca (talk) 12:21, 16 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
As RSes such Guardian and Tirana Times reported, she is not only a notable person but also there are a lot of events to make her more notable such as:
  1. Her membership in MEK: Somayeh Mohammadi is one of about 2,300 members of the MEK living inside a heavily fortified base that has been built on 34 hectares of farmland in north-west Albania.
  2. How she joined the group: Somayeh flew to Iraq to attend a summer camp and to visit her maternal aunt’s grave. She never came back.
  3. The previous activity of her parents: Her parents, who were once supporters of the group
  4. Her parent's effort: The couple has spent the past two decades trying to get their daughter out of the MEK, traveling from their home in Canada to Paris, Jordan, Iraq and now Albania
  5. The role of MEK in her life: The MEK insists Somayeh does not wish to leave the camp
  6. The letter published on Albanian media: she has released a letter in which accuses her father of working for Iranian intelligence
  7. A documentary film, “An Unfinished Film for My Daughter, Somayeh”, narrated the life story of Somayeh and her family.

... and etc. Saff V. (talk) 11:58, 17 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete - Also per WP:BLP1E and WP:NOTNEWS. Unreliable sources aside, the little coverage this incident has received in reliable media spans from November 2019 to February 2019, making this about a single event that lacks ongoing coverage. - MA Javadi (talk) 16:51, 17 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strongly keep the Article, it's obviously notable and also pass WP:GNG. That's weird, the article nominated for deletion just 3 weeks ago and now nominate again... This sources covered the subject that proves it is a notable one, 1, 2, 3, 4. And about the WP:BLP1E, the article subject has covered a full story of a living person and it will expand more in future.Forest90 (talk) 21:03, 17 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete and Salt Per WP:Advocacy. Nothing pointed out by Saff V. here, (including the "documentary" produced by the MEK's political opposition), is notable. Nikoo.Amini (talk) 21:17, 17 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'm afraid, is it even an AFD rational? Also, I think you need to see Notability since you're using it in a wrong manner. Deep coverage of the subject by reliable sources is a clear indication of notability. --Mhhossein talk 11:36, 18 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Except that there isn't "deep coverage of the subject"; there is some coverage in limited reliable sources, which do not confirm the incident as actually true, just testimonies by Somayeh's father, and Somayeh saying the whole thing is a fabrication. If this qualifies for a Wikipedia page, then any allegation on a news outlet should get its own Wikipedia page. Nikoo.Amini (talk) 01:40, 20 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
YOU think there's not "deep coverage of the subject". See my comment for a more detailed response. --Mhhossein talk 15:03, 20 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I have to notice that mek-iran and mojahedin are RS to release MEK position, as well as Iranian news agencies, are RS to publish Iran positions about her.Saff V. (talk) 09:49, 18 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: After the first AFD closed by Jo-Jo Eumerus with a note describing it as leaning " more to a keep than a delete", this new nomination seems like an awkward attempt at removing a notable life story, at any price possible, be it throwing irrelevant guidelines and arguments; Among the comments one may see self-contradictory arguments, in contrast to their will, further proving the notability of the subject (See conversation between Alex-h and Phil Bridger). Also I was astonished by comments starting with 'strong delete' and even 'delete and salt'!!!, the latter citing WP:Advocacy!, which may already signal how the case is important.
    Anyway, I don't know if I have to repeat my keep already given in the previous AFD, but instead would like to remind that, despite what some users try to show here, we're not talking about the role of a girl in an event, rather the article is describing a life story! Yes, Somayeh's membership in MEK and her parents following here every where to take her back home and the events occurring to them, have made a life story which is covered by numerous reliable sources. She was approached by multiple journalists, her story was covered by multiple reliable sources and was documented in 'An unfinished movie for my daughter Somayhe' which also received reactions from people like Masoud Behnoud. That's why I believe the article needs to be kept. --Mhhossein talk 12:12, 18 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Oh this one again. Well I for one haven't changed my mind [2] --HistoryofIran (talk) 16:24, 18 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Last month's AfD was closed as 'no consensus' and that is the current position on this AfD. In the circumstances it seems best to allow more time in the hope that a consensus one way or another forms.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Just Chilling (talk) 14:36, 19 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per WP:GNG non trivial coverage exists in the secondary sources already present Iran Times, The Guardian, The Baghdad Post and in foreign press. Lightburst (talk) 22:00, 19 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Regardless if you believe this is a Iranian disinformation campaign, or she really has been kidnapped and brainwashed, this is a notable story, more so in Iran but enough for Enwiki. The article has a lot of cleanup work needed - repetitions, grammar etc.. -- GreenC 23:27, 19 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep When you don't get the result you want at an AFD you shouldn't nominate it again 12 days later. Now then, if the article was renamed to show it is about the event not just the person, that would probably solve some of the problems. It is getting media coverage in news media around the world. This is clearly a notable situation. Passes the general notability guidelines as others have already pointed out with ample examples. Dream Focus 00:42, 20 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 06:55, 23 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Somayeh_Mohammadi_(2nd_nomination)&oldid=908065161"