Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Siam Empire

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect.

Redirect fits to all votes, as none of them gave any reasons against it. The keep vote states "Thailand renamed from Siam in the 1930s, thousands of encyclopedias (World Book, Colliers, Comptons and Britannica) used the word in Asia articles.", but that is, if at all, a reason for "Siam", not for "Siam Empire". Some people voted merge, but that was opposed with the argument that "All the facts are already in other articles". The information is not lost; editors who find something worthwile can still retrieve it from the history. — Sebastian 02:23, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Siam Empire

Siam Empire (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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Unreferenced and confusingly narrated article which duplicates most of its content from other Thai history articles.The title is misleading, since Siam was not known as an empire, nor did the name refer to a single modern nation-state with distinct borders the way the Infobox ridiculously seems to suggest. Siam previously redirected to History of Thailand, which should host most of what is currently in this article. See also prior discussion regarding the poor prospects of the article at Talk:Siam Empire#What is this?. Paul_012 ^(talk) 08:04, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Thailand-related deletion discussions. -- Paul_012 ^(talk) 08:06, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
• Merge any content that isn't already present there into History of Thailand. LotLE×talk 08:48, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
• Keep notable per history in Thailand. Thailand renamed from Siam in the 1930s, thousands of encyclopedias (World Book, Colliers, Comptons and Britannica) used the word in Asia articles. ApprenticeFan ^{talk contribs} 12:50, 21 November 2009 (UTC)
• Delete Siam and Thailand are interchangeable, maybe a larger etymology is needed to clarify the name "Siam" in the article Thailand. But "Siam Empire" must go; the name itself is wrong, no such state has ever existed. It is historically incorrect and unsourced. Sodacan (talk) 18:09, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

• Just to quote myself from earlier on the talk page: This the worst article on the english wikipedia concerning Thailand, it needs to be deleted. All the facts are already in other articles and there is absolutely no need for this article's existence at all. It should be deleted as soon as possible. As a Thai the name 'Siam Empire' itself is ridiculous no such nation state ever existed. The people in the area and the land itself is called Siamese and Siam respectively, in turn they were ruled by various centers of power which ever one is more dominant militarily at the time- but never a concept of a single state, only of successive states which copy the traditions of others before it. In Thai itself no self respecting historians would describe the various 'Krungs' (e.g. Krung Sukhothai, Krung Si Ayutthaya, Krung Thonburi, Krung Rattanakosin) as an 'Empire' only as 'Kingdoms'. Please delete this article as soon as possible it is completely historically incorrect and unnecessary. Sodacan (talk) 19:15, 8 November 2009 (UTC) Sodacan (talk) 10:45, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

• Merge history content to History of Thailand. But we can have the article about etymology of the word "Siam" and it should be describe how this name was notable. --Octra Bond (talk) 13:23, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

---

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 14:28, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

• Redirect to History of Thailand as a plausible search term for some historic version of Thailand. 76.66.194.154 (talk) 08:13, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
• Keep: Redirect not notable Look carefully and see Xiengyod. - Ret.Prof (talk) 02:30, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
• Delete: as follow reason:
  • Texts are duplicated with many article of the history of Thailand and no reliable reference sources are referred to this article.
  • Although some books mentioned Siam as Empire, it has just appeared on 18th century. This should be meaning for the Rattanakosin Kingdom only. Meanwhile, many books in same age preferred to describe Siam as Kingdom (compare with 46 search result for "Siam Empire" and see Xiengyod> 1338 search result for "Kingdom of Siam" in Google Books), at least in 16th century, reign of King Narai of Ayuddhaya (but the name "Siam" appeared in history before that time long ago). I have read a voyage diary of Henry Mouhot (English version), I saw he also used these two words to describe Siam!
  • The name "Siam" is not a name of an unique kingdom. It was used to describe many kingdoms which situated at the central of the modren state of Thailand. Timeline of some kingdoms such as Sukhothai and Ayuddhaya is dupilcated. This name came to be formal country name of Siamese people in the reign of king Rama IV of Rattanakosin Kingdom. (see discussion in Thai Wikipedia, th:พูดคุย:สยาม)
  • Siam never called herself officialy as "empire" but "kingdom".
  • Main article should be named as "Siam" only, neither "Kingdom of Siam" nor "Siam Empire," to describe the etymology and usage of this name.

--Xiengyod (talk) 10:16, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.